Please dont just stand there. Learn to move.

[Awha]

Because you are not all healers and all parties are not the ones you have been in. In a general sense we should encourage not eating mechanics because as other threads have shown the difference in game knowledge and skill are great, and the largest amount of people will likely benefit from learning how to play "correctly" rather than riding edges and being greedy. Both the support and the damage side.



Should we not be encouraging a higher level of play in general and a standard of at least "by design" clearing of content? What is more likely to be a standard for the majority in this game: Teaching something like "don't stand in orange and learn your rotation" or "Ok you can eat this and this but then you have to not mess up again and if you can pull off one more cast to kill this boss 10 seconds faster if you eat this and healers you should be ready to heal BLM's through any high damage even though they're wearing the worst armor in the game because they're more efficient if allowed to stand still"?

Not sure how to answer this without being an ass. I can only speak from my own experience and I really do not care how others play or the general skill of strangers. If people do not meet my expectations I just boot them or leave. I go based off the if I can do it so can someone else. Though generally I also do not try to make assumptions based off factors I do not know so I get this puts me in a murky situation since everyone is different.

So on a personal level I really do not care what the community wants to encourage.

Though I will say sure it would be nice if the skill level of the average player goes up but that more so is the responsibility of SE in my opinion and not so much the community.

Though generally I would say on a personal level if I had to choose I would rather the latter be encouraged more over the former. I think if players tried to push their limits it would have a longer lasting improvement over just following the script so to speak. That is why as a healer I have no problem and will encourage people to test their limits and I will do so myself when I play. If people complain or do not heal me out of spite ( had this happen once it was honestly fun) it will not impact me cause I personally know what I can for the most part get away with while relying on just myself to sustain my own actions if that makes sense. So yeah I will always encourage what has the greater potential for the quickest kill since that is the metric that matters most to me and I find most enjoyable to strive for. Though I do get that is at odds for the general player base but I really do not care about the general player base I tend to focus on those in the group with me at any given time.

[Krotoan]

Not sure how to answer this without being an ass. I can only speak from my own experience and I really do not care how others play or the general skill of strangers. If people do not meet my expectations I just boot them or leave. I go based off the if I can do it so can someone else. Though generally I also do not try to make assumptions based off factors I do not know so I get this puts me in a murky situation since everyone is different.

I am aware of your personal approach to gameplay and again , in in the spirit of truth over feelings I think your methods are unhealthy to the survival and perpetuation of the game which I enjoy and hope to see become more popular so that the company continues to invest in it.

So on a personal level I really do not care what the community wants to encourage.

Your prerogative but that is the discussion we're having here.

Though I will say sure it would be nice if the skill level of the average player goes up but that more so is the responsibility of SE in my opinion and not so much the community.

It's not a responsibility, it's an ability we have. We can , as players, spread standards of basic competency using the rules and easily followed mechanics given to us. Or we can try to shoehorn everyone into some optimal second-shaving speedrun player. The question being explored in this thread right now being which one do you think is more likely to be accepted/adapted widely?

[Imora]

Personally, I detest speed running. It's why I detest WoW's mythic plus system. it encourages bad habits. It encourages toxic behavior as well. if you don't like the dungeons and just want to get it done as fast as possible, don't run them or make a premade group for them.

Nothing more obnoxious to me than a new to the role tank or healer getting into a speed run that wipes constantly because either the tank or the healer can't keep up, or the DPS is just bad for some reason(low gear, newbie, whatever). It's just a recipe for disaster in my personal experience.

But.... it is what it is. And until SE starts making people care about mechanics, this will continue to happen.

[ZedxKayn]

Standing in AOE allows the healer (me) to not fall asleep on the KB, it's aight.

[Awha]

I am aware of your personal approach to gameplay and again , in in the spirit of truth over feelings I feel your methods are unhealthy to the survival and perpetuation of the game which I enjoy and hope to see become more popular so that the company continues to invest in it.


Your prerogative but that is the discussion we're having here.



It's not a responsibility, it's an ability we have. We can , as players, spread standards of basic competency using the rules and easily followed mechanics given to us. Or we can try to shoehorn everyone into some optimal second-shaving speedrun player. The question being explored in this thread right now being which one do you think is more likely to be accepted/adapted widely?

If I am being honest even if we have the ability to do something it is SE's responsibility to give people a reason to do things the right way.

Generally I think is likely to be accepted or adapted is to let a select view to carry others across the finish line. Especially is normal mode content stays at the current difficulty level. If we even as a community want people to respect mechanics I do feel it is on SE to make it so we as players are forced to respect them.

[KageTokage]

Potentially hot take, but I would not be against them making the Thrice-come Ruin debuff as the new standard punishment for eating mechanics.

I assume they did it in Delubrum Reginae mostly to discourage lazy play from people using tanky essences that make surviving hits easy regardless of your role.

[NanaWiloh]

Oh, I wholeheartedly believe Damage Downs are a response to Ifrit Soccer where even JP's strat was to eat the vuln stack because it did so little damage. I actually prefer this approach, though I think they went a little too overboard with it.



Actually, the lack of damage is precisely the issue. Vuln stacks are supposed to be the game's ways of punishing you. If the increased damage is negligible, players have little incentive to care. The only "example" being shown is the mechanic doesn't matter, which is SE's fault not the playerbase. I'm much more mindful of say, mobs in higher floors of Deep Dungeon because they'll pound me into the ground if I'm not. That feedback gives me incentive to care. Hence why I do. Meanwhile, Shadow Doggo doing 10% extra damage doesn't because I have a 200k HP pool and he's hardly put a dent in it.

Mechanics should be respected now, not when they actually hurt. When SE makes things actually hurt the negative side of this idea will rear its ugly head. Old habbits die hard, so the more players who think its OK to stand in AOE now. The harder its going to be break players of it when mechanics hurt. Saw this happen in WoW going from wrath to Cata, dungeon difficulty jumped back to BC levels. Community lost its mind over the difficulty and all the players who couldnt handle it.

[Shibi]

Saw this happen in WoW going from wrath to Cata, dungeon difficulty jumped back to BC levels. Community lost its mind over the difficulty and all the players who couldnt handle it.

To be fair, most people lost it after Wrath of the Lion King when the skill trees were pruned, and sparkle ponies appeared. There wasn't that much complaint about dungeons getting harder, major expansion and all so people do expect to be hit hard while they gear - same as here.

Mechanics should be respected now, not when they actually hurt. When SE makes things actually hurt the negative side of this idea will rear its ugly head. Old habbits die hard, so the more players who think its OK to stand in AOE now. The harder its going to be break players of it when mechanics hurt.

People generally have no problems adjusting and adapting.

Again, when it's new, people usually take a little more care, the very first overland mob enough to knock some sense into most. Once geared and the fights known, it may well be that once more people find there is no need to move, although this time will come with a rebalance, so that that will be fun!

In all cases, healers should always be OK with not throwing a rock, but a heal.

[ForteNightshade]

Potentially hot take, but I would not be against them making the Thrice-come Ruin debuff as the new standard punishment for eating mechanics.

I assume they did it in Delubrum Reginae mostly to discourage lazy play from people using tanky essences that make surviving hits easy regardless of your role.

I very much agree, though I'd prefer they not attach a damage down to it. Maybe do it in stages of three: first is the warning, second the damage down and third death. Just so it allows uptime shenanigans but with a "word of caution," so to speak.

Mechanics should be respected now, not when they actually hurt. When SE makes things actually hurt the negative side of this idea will rear its ugly head. Old habbits die hard, so the more players who think its OK to stand in AOE now. The harder its going to be break players of it when mechanics hurt. Saw this happen in WoW going from wrath to Cata, dungeon difficulty jumped back to BC levels. Community lost its mind over the difficulty and all the players who couldnt handle it.

Why? This game is notorious for vastly undertuning most content. I'll adapt when I'm threatened not because of some silly respect factor. Mechanics are essentially a math equation. If they aren't doing enough to impact me, they may as well not be there. If those same mechanics suddenly started killing players or applying Twice/Thrice-come ruin, you bet people would be far more cautious. It's up to the devs to make us care in the same sense if they prefer healers to focus more on healing, if them stuff to actually heal.

[Infindox]

Potentially hot take, but I would not be against them making the Thrice-come Ruin debuff as the new standard punishment for eating mechanics.

I assume they did it in Delubrum Reginae mostly to discourage lazy play from people using tanky essences that make surviving hits easy regardless of your role.

Instead of two hits it should be a "three strikes and you're out" deal if you were to adopt it in other content.