Please dont just stand there. Learn to move.

[NanaWiloh]

Unfortunately, it isn't for a lot of content. I can and have collected seven vuln stacks from the last boss in Grand Cosmos and he [i]still[i] doesn't do half my HP through cooldowns. I've had four in E10N and never come remotely close to dying. Granted, DPS and healers can't collect every vuln stack but this is largely the problem with how low casual content is tuned. People aren't going to respect mechanics when they aren't threatening because there's no reason to. If I can eat Shiva's Axe Kick as a melee, why am I going to disengage and lose damage? It won't kill me, and I can easily heal myself back up with Bloodbath.

The devs need to stop tuning content so low if they want people to care about vuln stacks.

Its not the damage thats the issue its the act of ignoring it in general it sets a bad example. With the number of threads that have come around complaining and asking for more in game tutorials, encouraging any kind of play should be avoided.

[Awha]

Thing is eating an attack that barely does any meaningful damage. Can we really say it sets a bad example? The example being set is if an attack does not cause meaningful harm then what is the big deal.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I was thinking to mention that trust party AI tried their best to dodge AoEs as an example, but then I'm reminded how squadron AI don't even bother to dodge them. It's a glaring example of how eating 'bad stuffs' when they're not 'bad enough' is fine cause they can just be roflstomp'ed anyhow.

[NanaWiloh]

Thing is eating an attack that barely does any meaningful damage. Can we really say it sets a bad example? The example being set is if an attack does not cause meaningful harm then what is the big deal.

Well lets see Hall of novice as someone pointed out, teaches you dont stand in bad. Now Hall of novice also teaches healers should dps during down time. So if healer dps is not need to kill a mob then the healer should be ok to just heal. Cause otherwise I think I am catching the smell of a double standard.

[Krotoan]

Thing is eating an attack that barely does any meaningful damage. Can we really say it sets a bad example? The example being set is if an attack does not cause meaningful harm then what is the big deal.

Learning to avoid telegraphed AOE's is a necessary skill and not only makes it easier for the rest of the party: Healers don't have to heal more, if they don't have to heal more they can save resources for other things like DPS or saving OTHER people who mess up. Most telegraphs on most bosses and later fights give a Vuln debuff which in turn makes it harder to keep you alive and riskier to take further hits.

All in all doing the encounter "correctly" is optimal in most cases and a good balance between expediency and recovery potential.

You are expected by design to be able to maintain your rotation while avoiding telegraphed damage.

In most "hardcore" content one telegraph eat means death or possibly engaging the healers attention when it could be better used preparing for the next stage. If we want decent players it's an easier thing to teach and remember "don't stand in orange" than it is to find out which and what AOE's you CAN eat that have relatively little effect.

I was thinking to mention that trust party AI tried their best to dodge AoEs as an example, but then I'm reminded how squadron AI don't even bother to dodge them. It's a glaring example of how eating 'bad stuffs' when they're not 'bad enough' is fine cause they can just be roflstomp'ed anyhow.

Squadron AI you were expected to pull them to YOU out of it by giving commands. Squadron AI is the absolute basest of the base standards for AI companions.

[NanaWiloh]

Learning to avoid telegraphed AOE's is a necessary skill and not only makes it easier for the rest of the party: Healers don't have to heal more, if they don't have to heal more they can save resources for other things like DPS or saving OTHER people who mess up. Most telegraphs on most bosses and later fights give a Vuln debuff which in turn makes it harder to keep you alive and riskier to take further hits.

All in all doing the encounter "correctly" is optimal in most cases and a good balance between expediency and recovery potential.

You are expected by design to be able to maintain your rotation while avoiding telegraphed damage.

In most "hardcore" content one telegraph eat means death or possibly engaging the healers attention when it could be better used preparing for the next stage. If we want decent players it's an easier thing to teach and remember "don't stand in orange" than it is to find out which and what AOE's you CAN eat that have relatively little effect.



Squadron AI you were expected to pull them to YOU out of it by giving commands. Squadron AI is the absolute basest of the base standards for AI companions.

This is why I dont try to explain things...someone always comes along and does a better job.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Squadron AI you were expected to pull them to YOU out of it by giving commands. Squadron AI is the absolute basest of the base standards for AI companions.

This much I can agree, considering we do have the special command to do so. The thing is, are they even worthy to utilize when they can survive the beating---or more importantly, will the player even bother to command them to do so when even the non-tank squadron can take some tankbusters on face and still be kickin' and alive? Not to mention the delay between command input and the AI responsiveness

Simply put... they're just not debilitating nor threatening enough to make players don't want to eat them at face value. This is why I personally adore Twice/Thrice-comes-Ruin & damage down debuffs---respect the mechanics, as people had mentioned.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, as a main healer I will get irritated if a certain player kept eating avoidable bad stuffs repetitively in the name of DPS uptime---my priority in keeping said players healthy decreases the more they repeat such behavior.

[Awha]

Learning to avoid telegraphed AOE's is a necessary skill and not only makes it easier for the rest of the party: Healers don't have to heal more, if they don't have to heal more they can save resources for other things like DPS or saving OTHER people who mess up. Most telegraphs on most bosses and later fights give a Vuln debuff which in turn makes it harder to keep you alive and riskier to take further hits.

All in all doing the encounter "correctly" is optimal in most cases and a good balance between expediency and recovery potential.

You are expected by design to be able to maintain your rotation while avoiding telegraphed damage.

In most "hardcore" content one telegraph eat means death or possibly engaging the healers attention when it could be better used preparing for the next stage. If we want decent players it's an easier thing to teach and remember "don't stand in orange" than it is to find out which and what AOE's you CAN eat that have relatively little effect.



Squadron AI you were expected to pull them to YOU out of it by giving commands. Squadron AI is the absolute basest of the base standards for AI companions.

From a healer PoV outside of a few situations I hardly ever find myself needing to use a gcd to heal dps that know what they can and cannot eat. Even in cases with tanks eating heavy amount of vuln stacks I still rarely find myself having to use extra resources.

That is the point if the risk is not that great and does not cause any meaningful difference in terms of play from the healer side why does it matter.

Sure if we are talking high end content that is a different story and I agree, though even in those cases I know within my group we push heavily for greed strats.

Well lets see Hall of novice as someone pointed out, teaches you dont stand in bad. Now Hall of novice also teaches healers should dps during down time. So if healer dps is not need to kill a mob then the healer should be ok to just heal. Cause otherwise I think I am catching the smell of a double standard.

Tbh never done hall of novice but I know going back to when I got into hardcore raid progression I was told that good players know when to push their limits. Knowing what you can and cannot eat damage or attack wise is doing just that.

Following the set script is not always the quickest way to reach ones goal. Optimal can mean best or more favorable for some may be clearing the fight as efficiently as possible and for others it may come down to how quickly it can be done. If having players eat and attack and it shaves a few seconds off for me personally that is worth and as a healer I am all for it.

In my view it is not a double standard cause my goal is to best the encounter as quickly as possible. Healer dps follows that path and if eating an attack also speeds up the kill then so be it.

In short if they want people to respect imthe mechanics of the game then give players a reason to. Though I am glad they are going down that route now.

[ForteNightshade]

Guess this is why we're getting stuffs like Twice/Thrice-comes-Ruin and Damage Downs. No wonder people hate them, -a lot-.

Oh, I wholeheartedly believe Damage Downs are a response to Ifrit Soccer where even JP's strat was to eat the vuln stack because it did so little damage. I actually prefer this approach, though I think they went a little too overboard with it.

Its not the damage thats the issue its the act of ignoring it in general it sets a bad example. With the number of threads that have come around complaining and asking for more in game tutorials, encouraging any kind of play should be avoided.

Actually, the lack of damage is precisely the issue. Vuln stacks are supposed to be the game's ways of punishing you. If the increased damage is negligible, players have little incentive to care. The only "example" being shown is the mechanic doesn't matter, which is SE's fault not the playerbase. I'm much more mindful of say, mobs in higher floors of Deep Dungeon because they'll pound me into the ground if I'm not. That feedback gives me incentive to care. Hence why I do. Meanwhile, Shadow Doggo doing 10% extra damage doesn't because I have a 200k HP pool and he's hardly put a dent in it.

[Krotoan]

From a healer PoV outside of a few situations I hardly ever find myself needing to use a gcd to heal dps that know what they can and cannot eat. Even in cases with tanks eating heavy amount of vuln stacks I still rarely find myself having to use extra resources.

That is the point if the risk is not that great and does not cause any meaningful difference in terms of play from the healer side why does it matter.

Because you are not all healers and all parties are not the ones you have been in. In a general sense we should encourage not eating mechanics because as other threads have shown the difference in game knowledge and skill are great, and the largest amount of people will likely benefit from learning how to play "correctly" rather than riding edges and being greedy. Both the support and the damage side.

Sure if we are talking high end content that is a different story and I agree, though even in those cases I know within my group we push heavily for greed strats.

Should we not be encouraging a higher level of play in general and a standard of at least "by design" clearing of content? What is more likely to be a standard for the majority in this game: Teaching something like "don't stand in orange and learn your rotation" or "Ok you can eat this and this but then you have to not mess up again and if you can pull off one more cast to kill this boss 10 seconds faster if you eat this and healers you should be ready to heal BLM's through any high damage even though they're wearing the worst armor in the game because they're more efficient if allowed to stand still"?