Parsers add replayability for casual players

[Roeshel]

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Awha, I get what you mean. Let's look at DPZ2 for example, he trying to make it seem as if calling out a tank who hasn't learned how to take the aggro of 3 mobs by level 77 is something bad, because hE mAy NeVeR eNgAgE iN eNd-GaMe CoNtEnT.

Yes, I can heal through 2 mobs targeting me and one the tank. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't speak my mind though.

I agree that there are some people who actively[ oppose self-betterment. The antonym for improvement is degeneration. Let that sink in for a moment.

As for the bar... it varies from party to party. One party is going to allow disturbingly bad play, the other will not

I will recognize ZedxKayn's earlier point in that you can also use a parser readout as a shield.. but that shield will always come hand in hand with the club.. which is why neither shield nor club will be provided officially.

You can always word it like "read the battle logs, manually, and see who dealt more damage/is more useful" when someone is telling you that you can't play. It is something one hardly ever will have to use because it is visible to most people you meet that you can play.

[Middie]

A multiplayer video game. You might not like it but as it is not singleplayer you have the responsibilities to try your best and take criticism in such a game. Which frankly, really isn't much to ask from someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity of a child.

If playing at an acceptable level and dealing with people makes someone feel like the game is a job they don't want to do, perhaps they simply do not enjoy the game.

The parser won't tell you if they're playing their best, only if they're not playing to *insert random acceptable numbers based upon the beholder here*.

I think that's fine when you have like-minded players pushing content and have a similar expectation. Mythic raids/keys in WoW this works great, and I assume this is also applicable to Savage? Sorry, I'm more a casual player in FF14.

But it breaks down when you have random people... Who gets to define what the standard is? Each person tends to have their own interpretation of that. Bigger the group, bigger the difference in opinion because... well, "acceptable level" is subjective.

Has SE already decided what that acceptable level is, already implemented it into the tuning to account for lesser skilled players, and introducing an arbitrary secondary level a detriment to the community and player base as a whole?

Given that I, my partner, and my daughter, who all have a large variety in skill level and skill cap, can have fun in FF14 as a family... I think I'm going to side with letting SE decide on the acceptable level

[ZedxKayn]

lol no, you'll get reported if you criticize someone for underperforming probably.
If people stopped feeling the need to grace others with their ~advice~ we'd probably have parsers in the game by now. You think those who are underperforming care? Hahahaha most of the time that isn't the case in roulettes. They're probably just watching anime or whatever on their second monitor while they press 1 2 3
Best thing to do is vote kick or leave yourself if you feel the party is getting no where. But don't ever mention parse numbers.

And that's where the criticism towards the GCBTW and the overall coddling environment comes from, if calling out someone for purposefully playing worse than bots is considered harassment but them completely disregarding their entire party by not wanting to put in a modicum of effort is a-okay, there is a huge glaring flaw, in the environment and in the latter person's character as well.

Who in a sound state of mind would take for example the suggestion that Asylum should be prioritized over Medica as an insult and harassment? The game doesn't teach player anything regarding their job, how else would people learn? It's more likely that they don't even know they're doing anything wrong when they're not doing it out of malice! Yet despite having never be taught how to use their toolkit properly, advice is unwelcome and toxic, and somehow this became acceptable in XIV?
What other game even perceive that backwards logic as acceptable?

[VelKallor]

Yet despite having never be taught how to use their toolkit properly, advice is unwelcome and toxic, and somehow this became acceptable in XIV?

It isnt what you say, Zed, and somehow this small factor has been missed in the conversation.

Its HOW you say it. I have had a lot of useful conversations on rotations etc....but then again, said advice was offered, and received. in a proper, polite and constructive manner.

Something to think about, wouldnt you say?

[Senn]

...

Bro that's what the vote kick button is for. Kick for differences in play style.
I think most people, even if not optimally, know how to play their class decently. They just don't care to do so in roulette. It's not malice or inexperience - some people are just lazy. And if they are inexperienced and care to improve, they would youtube it.

[Caurcas]

I saw this and a reply to it and I thought this person was making a joke or something but I see throughout the thread that no, they're serious.

"I want to beat the other tank into the ground"
"Promoting this mindset would make the community healthier"

Pick one. As it is, it sounds like you have unresolved anger issues and an inferiority/superiority complex.

Thanks doctor for diagnosing me. However, this here is called being competitive, simple as.

[ZedxKayn]

It isnt what you say, Zed, and somehow this has been missed in the conversation.

Its HOW you say it. I have had a lot of useful conversations on rotations etc....but then again, said advice was offered, and received. in a proper, polite and constructive manner.

Something to think about, wouldnt you say?

I make the effort to be as carebear and inoffensive as possible when voicing my tips but it still sets people off. "Holy is the single best mitigation tool and it's fun to use, you should try it out!" for example, how offensive is that? But there's a significant subset of the playerbase that needs to be shielded from that at risk of a very unpleasant experience for someone who dared try to help them.

Not directly replying to you (formating on mobile is ass) but yes a parser could be useful to help people who don't focus on mixmaxing improve and genuinely would likely lead to less encounters like that, for example as a WHM, in synced content, I'm very often at least 2nd on the DPS ranking and above some DPS players by a huge margin, players who otherwise might not realize there is something amiss and will be much less likely to want to improve (if they realize there is room for improvement at all), either by asking, looking up guides, or taking criticism better.

[Wavaryen]

A multiplayer video game. You might not like it but as it is not singleplayer you have the responsibilities to try your best and take criticism in such a game. Which frankly, really isn't much to ask from someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity of a child.

If playing at an acceptable level and dealing with people makes someone feel like the game is a job they don't want to do, perhaps they simply do not enjoy the game.

It can also be turned around on you to say this. It is not a single player game and what people standards on what is acceptable, and what is fun to others does not have a set standard.



This stance also the game is being designed with that in mind. Players have the tools to make a linkshell and have like minded players and or add people to friends that you know meets the quality that players want.


The convenience of making groups without a social element added to it is balanced by the fact that the quality of players you get is questionable and should be. Since someone has the very much right to play however they want. Just like they have a right to be vote kicked if the group does not want them in.


These tools will be used and weaponized for better quality groups. That is how it always ends up, and the developers have clearly stated they don't want this mmorpg to be that type of game.

[VelKallor]

These tools will be used and weaponized for better quality groups. That is how it always ends up, and the developers have clearly stated they don't want this mmorpg to be that type of game.

Agreed.

Note my earlier quote from the WOW forums.

I make the effort to be as carebear and inoffensive as possible when voicing my tips but it still sets people off

That's....odd...Ive been handing out constructive criticism to teams, professionals in many walks of life , in at least four separate industries, over what....thirty years..? (God..NO..a lot longer than that..yeesh I'm getting old..)...and I've almost never had that reaction.

I have never needed to be "carebear", as you put it, yet I have managed to get my point across and have it received well successfully on multiple occasions.

Maybe work on your approach?

Thanks doctor for diagnosing me doctor. However, this here is called being competitive, simple as.

To quote a very wise woman from my again, early days "The only person you really need to compete against, is yourself" One can also be competitive without being patronising, rude, abrasive or insulting.

Honey vs vinegar, y'know?

I'm very often at least 2nd on the DPS ranking and above some DPS players by a huge margin, players who otherwise might not realize there is something amiss and will be much less likely to want to improve (if they realize there is room for improvement at all), either by asking, looking up guides, or taking criticism better.

There is MUCH more to an instance than being top of the dps charts.

In any case, the SE team has said NO in a very loud voice to an ingame parser, their reasons are, to me, correct and reasonable..so this entire discussion is academic at best.

[NanaWiloh]

You enter the duty finder with a parser running. Then you are just asking for punishment.