Parsers add replayability for casual players

[ZedxKayn]

Bending the knee...who is this, Tyrion Lannister?.

Im sorry are we discussing paid employment, or are we we discussing a video game?

A multiplayer video game. You might not like it but as it is not singleplayer you have the responsibilities to try your best and take criticism in such a game. Which frankly, really isn't much to ask from someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity of a child.

If playing at an acceptable level and dealing with people makes someone feel like the game is a job they don't want to do, perhaps they simply do not enjoy the game.

[Senn]

take criticism in such a game.

lol no, you'll get reported if you criticize someone for underperforming probably.
If people stopped feeling the need to grace others with their ~advice~ we'd probably have parsers in the game by now. You think those who are underperforming care? Hahahaha most of the time that isn't the case in roulettes. They're probably just watching anime or whatever on their second monitor while they press 1 2 3
Best thing to do is vote kick or leave yourself if you feel the party is getting no where. But don't ever mention parse numbers.

[ZedxKayn]

lol no, you'll get reported if you criticize someone for underperforming probably.
If people stopped feeling the need to grace others with their ~advice~ we'd probably have parsers in the game by now. You think those who are underperforming care? Hahahaha most of the time that isn't the case in roulettes. They're probably just watching anime or whatever on their second monitor while they press 1 2 3
Best thing to do is vote kick or leave yourself if you feel the party is getting no where. But don't ever mention parse numbers.

And that's where the criticism towards the GCBTW and the overall coddling environment comes from, if calling out someone for purposefully playing worse than bots is considered harassment but them completely disregarding their entire party by not wanting to put in a modicum of effort is a-okay, there is a huge glaring flaw, in the environment and in the latter person's character as well.

Who in a sound state of mind would take for example the suggestion that Asylum should be prioritized over Medica as an insult and harassment? The game doesn't teach player anything regarding their job, how else would people learn? It's more likely that they don't even know they're doing anything wrong when they're not doing it out of malice! Yet despite having never be taught how to use their toolkit properly, advice is unwelcome and toxic, and somehow this became acceptable in XIV?
What other game even perceive that backwards logic as acceptable?

[VelKallor]

Yet despite having never be taught how to use their toolkit properly, advice is unwelcome and toxic, and somehow this became acceptable in XIV?

It isnt what you say, Zed, and somehow this small factor has been missed in the conversation.

Its HOW you say it. I have had a lot of useful conversations on rotations etc....but then again, said advice was offered, and received. in a proper, polite and constructive manner.

Something to think about, wouldnt you say?

[ZedxKayn]

It isnt what you say, Zed, and somehow this has been missed in the conversation.

Its HOW you say it. I have had a lot of useful conversations on rotations etc....but then again, said advice was offered, and received. in a proper, polite and constructive manner.

Something to think about, wouldnt you say?

I make the effort to be as carebear and inoffensive as possible when voicing my tips but it still sets people off. "Holy is the single best mitigation tool and it's fun to use, you should try it out!" for example, how offensive is that? But there's a significant subset of the playerbase that needs to be shielded from that at risk of a very unpleasant experience for someone who dared try to help them.

Not directly replying to you (formating on mobile is ass) but yes a parser could be useful to help people who don't focus on mixmaxing improve and genuinely would likely lead to less encounters like that, for example as a WHM, in synced content, I'm very often at least 2nd on the DPS ranking and above some DPS players by a huge margin, players who otherwise might not realize there is something amiss and will be much less likely to want to improve (if they realize there is room for improvement at all), either by asking, looking up guides, or taking criticism better.

[Shibi]

...for example as a WHM, in synced content, I'm very often at least 2nd on the DPS ranking and above some DPS players by a huge margin, players who otherwise might not realize there is something amiss and will be much less likely to want to improve...

You in good quality, level 80 fully gemmed gear, scaled down to synced content, will blitz any DPS leveling. That fake "I'm second, as an 80 in Brayflox's" isn't a great reason to incorporate something that is used as a club on people because you gear has absolutely trivialised synced content for you.

That on-level DPS would either look at the number and be totally disillusioned for no good reason, or have their face rubbed in it for no reason by a leveled character.

Just accept that SE knows, exactly, how a subset of highly strung, overly competitive players will use it when they start raging. Nothing will change, because people have already proven what they do with the tool even in it's not sanctioned state.

[ZedxKayn]

You in good quality, level 80 fully gemmed gear, scaled down to synced content, will blitz any DPS leveling. That fake "I'm second, as an 80 in Brayflox's" isn't a great reason to incorporate something that is used as a club on people because you gear has absolutely trivialised synced content for you.

That on-level DPS would either look at the number and be totally disillusioned for no good reason, or have their face rubbed in it for no reason by a leveled character.

Just accept that SE knows, exactly, how a subset of highly strung, overly competitive players will use it when they start raging. Nothing will change, because people have already proven what they do with the tool even in it's not sanctioned state.

You do know as long as they're synced as well, their gear will matter as much as mine, right? So, not at all.

[TaleraRistain]

I make the effort to be as carebear and inoffensive as possible when voicing my tips but it still sets people off. "Holy is the single best mitigation tool and it's fun to use, you should try it out!" for example, how offensive is that? But there's a significant subset of the playerbase that needs to be shielded from that at risk of a very unpleasant experience for someone who dared try to help them.

I think part of the flaw in your approach is that it sounds like you don't ask if they want advice first. As I'm sure Velkallor also understands, you need to have establish an environment where people are receptive to your message. When you're in a leadership position, as they mentioned they have been and I myself have been, that environment is already established. It's still most effective to be constructive and polite, but my subordinates are already primed to receive instruction from me. Not so with a random person. I don't think there's anything wrong or insulting in what you've said, but if you toss advice to someone without making that environment where they'll be receptive to it, the criticism will come off in a much more harsh manner without intending to and the person will not be nearly as receptive. If you say something to someone you've noticed is struggling like "Hey I main that class and I think I have a few tips that might help. Would you like to hear them?" there are still going to be some who might snap but many will be receptive. You're making them an active part of choosing to get the advice and that shows respect. If they say no, that's fine. Just muddle through or leave if you need to and don't worry further about it. I've only ever had one or two people who said no. Many who are struggling realize they are struggling but feel helpless and alone, and putting yourself out there as someone who will help them if they need it makes a world of difference.

[Senn]

...

Bro that's what the vote kick button is for. Kick for differences in play style.
I think most people, even if not optimally, know how to play their class decently. They just don't care to do so in roulette. It's not malice or inexperience - some people are just lazy. And if they are inexperienced and care to improve, they would youtube it.

[Middie]

A multiplayer video game. You might not like it but as it is not singleplayer you have the responsibilities to try your best and take criticism in such a game. Which frankly, really isn't much to ask from someone who doesn't have the emotional maturity of a child.

If playing at an acceptable level and dealing with people makes someone feel like the game is a job they don't want to do, perhaps they simply do not enjoy the game.

The parser won't tell you if they're playing their best, only if they're not playing to *insert random acceptable numbers based upon the beholder here*.

I think that's fine when you have like-minded players pushing content and have a similar expectation. Mythic raids/keys in WoW this works great, and I assume this is also applicable to Savage? Sorry, I'm more a casual player in FF14.

But it breaks down when you have random people... Who gets to define what the standard is? Each person tends to have their own interpretation of that. Bigger the group, bigger the difference in opinion because... well, "acceptable level" is subjective.

Has SE already decided what that acceptable level is, already implemented it into the tuning to account for lesser skilled players, and introducing an arbitrary secondary level a detriment to the community and player base as a whole?

Given that I, my partner, and my daughter, who all have a large variety in skill level and skill cap, can have fun in FF14 as a family... I think I'm going to side with letting SE decide on the acceptable level