Pronouns???

[Juzjuzz]

I never completly understood the pronouns problems tbh. Pronouns are not here for feelings, it tells what you are born with. I think intersex ppl are different (born with both male and female part if i'm not wrong), i heard they could choose but even then it's not there to say how they should be or how ppl should see them.

Making pronouns choices avaidable is not a great idea imo. It's a complex subject and i'm sure SE doesnt want to end up fucking up, so keeping the usual female called "she" and male called "he" is okay. You can play a female character if you want a more feminine pov and a male if you want a more masculine pov. But tbh it changes almost nothing in the story and your friend has probably played at least 1 game where you can't even create your character, it's not that bad.

[Penthea]

I never completly understood the pronouns problems tbh. Pronouns are not here for feelings

But they are. Even outside of LGBTQ+ circles people do purposefully use incorrect pronouns to hurt someone. I'm cis and straight, and grew up around people who are cis and straight, and when I was a child some of those people sometimes referred to me as "he" just because I liked doing some stuff that was traditionally for boys. I wasn't even a tomboy, I still liked many girly things. But I also liked toys and cartoons that were aimed at boys. Some people thought I shouldn't be engaging in both and would refer to me as "he" with the intention of shaming me.

I knew nothing about LGBTQ+ at that age, there was no social movement regarding pronouns at the time...and it still hurt me when I was referred to as if I was a boy when I knew myself to be a girl. Intentional incorrect use of pronouns was a tool used to bully me. Incorrect pronouns being directed at someone isn't something that can only begin when someone who is LGBTQ+ is involved. I have seen cis and straight adults do this to one another when a person deems someone to be acting inappropriately for their gender.

What I went through is not comparable to someone trans being referred to as the gender they don't identify with given I did not ever suffer from body or gender related dysphoria, but I still do understand that it's hurtful when people use pronouns that you don't feel match who you are because that has happened to me. It sucks to say the least.

I'm very fortunate that period of my life didn't last for very long. If only every trans and non-binary person could say the same.

[Nothv13]

But they are. Even outside of LGBTQ+ circles people do purposefully use incorrect pronouns to hurt someone. I'm cis and straight, and grew up around people who are cis and straight, and when I was a child some of those people sometimes referred to me as "he" just because I liked doing some stuff that was traditionally for boys. I wasn't even a tomboy, I still liked many girly things. But I also liked toys and cartoons that were aimed at boys. Some people thought I shouldn't be engaging in both and would refer to me as "he" with the intention of shaming me.

I knew nothing about LGBTQ+ at that age, there was no social movement regarding pronouns at the time...and it still hurt me when I was referred to as if I was a boy when I knew myself to be a girl. Intentional incorrect use of pronouns was a tool used to bully me. Incorrect pronouns being directed at someone isn't something that can only begin when someone who is LGBTQ+ is involved. I have seen cis and straight adults do this to one another when a person deems someone to be acting inappropriately for their gender.

What I went through is not comparable to someone trans being referred to as the gender they don't identify with given I did not ever suffer from body or gender related dysphoria, but I still do understand that it's hurtful when people use pronouns that you don't feel match who you are because that has happened to me. It sucks to say the least.

I'm very fortunate that period of my life didn't last for very long. If only every trans and non-binary person could say the same.

I grew up the same. You know what stopped it? Me no longer caring. Suddenly it no longer hurt me and the people doing it stopped as I no longer gave them what they wanted. You decide if words hurt you or not.

[lezard21]

I grew up the same. You know what stopped it? Me no longer caring. Suddenly it no longer hurt me and the people doing it stopped as I no longer gave them what they wanted. You decide if words hurt you or not.

There is even a South Park episode about this. When South Park is more mature than some adults then you need to start worrying.

[Penthea]

I grew up the same. You know what stopped it? Me no longer caring. Suddenly it no longer hurt me and the people doing it stopped as I no longer gave them what they wanted. You decide if words hurt you or not.

...I was seven years old. You really expect someone that young to have the presence of mind to come to those conclusions?

As for how it stopped I can only guess it's because it didn't make me stop playing with "boy's" toys so they got bored of trying to insult me.

[Nothv13]

...I was seven years old. You really expect someone that young to have the presence of mind to come to those conclusions?

As for how it stopped I can only guess it's because it didn't make me stop playing with "boy's" toys so they got bored of trying to insult me.

Yeah? I never said it was easy. It took me into my last year of high school. The issue is that adults are still acting like the 7 year old you without the maturity to not let things get to them.

[Penthea]

Yeah? I never said it was easy. It took me into my last year of high school. The issue is that adults are still acting like the 7 year old you without the maturity to not let things get to them.

Well for me it really was in early childhood and it was mostly other kids in the neighbourhood who were saying it to me, though they probably learned that behaviour from their parents. When I encountered adults with the same behaviour I was already in my teens and by then I was just like "whatever I do what I want".

[Juzjuzz]

But they are. Even outside of LGBTQ+ circles people do purposefully use incorrect pronouns to hurt someone. I'm cis and straight, and grew up around people who are cis and straight, and when I was a child some of those people sometimes referred to me as "he" just because I liked doing some stuff that was traditionally for boys. I wasn't even a tomboy, I still liked many girly things. But I also liked toys and cartoons that were aimed at boys. Some people thought I shouldn't be engaging in both and would refer to me as "he" with the intention of shaming me.

I knew nothing about LGBTQ+ at that age, there was no social movement regarding pronouns at the time...and it still hurt me when I was referred to as if I was a boy when I knew myself to be a girl. Intentional incorrect use of pronouns was a tool used to bully me. Incorrect pronouns being directed at someone isn't something that can only begin when someone who is LGBTQ+ is involved. I have seen cis and straight adults do this to one another when a person deems someone to be acting inappropriately for their gender.

What I went through is not comparable to someone trans being referred to as the gender they don't identify with given I did not ever suffer from body or gender related dysphoria, but I still do understand that it's hurtful when people use pronouns that you don't feel match who you are because that has happened to me. It sucks to say the least.

I'm very fortunate that period of my life didn't last for very long. If only every trans and non-binary person could say the same.

Yes ppl guive importance to pronouns and it's a mistake. You got hurt because you were thinking it was more than it should be. Ppl used pronouns to hurt you because they think it's important to see you as a "girl who likes only girly things like other girls". But in reality your pronoun is not there to please anyone, including you.

And for the bullying, i'm not saying it's your 100% fault, that you could resolve it yourself, it's not easy for everyone to deal with that. Idk what the exact situation was so judging is useless (and even if i knew what can i say?). It sucks that's all, only thing we can do is learning and i say what i think.

Some people just can't accept whats different that's all, even today. They don't get why ppl like certains things so they fear it. It's funny coming from me who says "pronouns choices is a bad thing" but whats the point of pronouns in the 1rst place? Just making a guy who wanted to be girl feel better? Is that even a good thing? He could be as girly as he wants and still being called "he".

Words are tools, and like any tool they can hurt you if you use them in the wrong way. Even if it's other ppl who say something, you still used the words directed to you (you have to understand what they mean etc...). If you let some words be more than a tool, it will get in your head and hurt you (or at least everything tied to that word will make you angry or sad etc).

Same thing for the LGBTQ+, pronouns are not "i see myself as". It's "i'm born with a male/female body".

[Penthea]

Yes ppl guive importance to pronouns and it's a mistake. You got hurt because you were thinking it was more than it should be. Ppl used pronouns to hurt you because they think it's important to see you as a "girl who likes only girly things like other girls". But in reality your pronoun is not there to please anyone, including you.

No I got hurt because they tried to make me feel like I didn't belong anywhere because I supposedly could never be a proper boy or girl. They didn't refer to me with pronouns and otherwise treated me well. Their pronoun use was often paired with bullying me. An older kid even joked about pulling down my pants to see what I really am. They gave pronouns huge importance and negative connotations, not me. Please don't tell me how I felt and why. Only I know this, not you.

And frankly it's disgusting that you are implying it's seven year old me's fault for wanting to be addressed as who I am. Oh yea how dare a child want to feel comfortable in their own skin. How ridiculous I was to want to be able to like both barbies and transformers and still be seen as a girl without having to justify why who I am is an okay thing.

Some people just can't accept whats different that's all, even today. They don't get why ppl like certains things so they fear it. It's funny coming from me who says "pronouns choices is a bad thing" but whats the point of pronouns in the 1rst place? Just making a guy who wanted to be girl feel better? Is that even a good thing? He could be as girly as he wants and still being called "he".

While you're at it you may as well say "what's the point in names in the first place? Just to make a girl who wants to be called John feel better? Is that even a good thing? She could be as John as she wants and still be called Mary".

Pronouns are often used in place of a name, so they often -feel- like a name. If I say I'm Mary don't call me John. If I say I'm a she don't call me he. It's really that simple.

I never had gender identity issues. I had issues with other people's ideas of gender identity being forced upon me.

As I already said I'm fortunate that period didn't last very long. I'm very stubborn so I didn't stop playing with boy and girls toys. I can only guess the bullying stopped because it didn't have the desired effect. The only thing I changed was I tried to avoid those people. I didn't try to avoid being who I am to please them. Their actions made me feel very unhappy but I didn't give in.

I only had a super tiny taste of what it's like to be trans or non-binary. And that taste was still so horrible. I never forgot it. Which is hugely why I address someone by whatever they choose. I don't want to make someone else feel the way I did. Not even by the smallest bit. It was cruel and I don't want to be cruel.