Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

[Rinhi]

Then you're not reading between the lines. There are many small thinks that hint towards most of this just OP being elitist and angry at the 'rabble' - amongst them would be their repeat phrasing of underperforming players as 'leeches' and 'parasites', their advocacy for DF tiering and automatic kicking of their hated underperforming players. Their insistence that they're 'average, not even that good' when their numbers paint an entirely different matter -- 99s, >75s. Their assertion that they're being 'taken advantage of' by the 'great community' and that '50% of people in DF are bad'.

the OPs humble brag aside, how are they wrong in the sense that many players do not know how to play their f-ing job adequately? why are you arguing in defense of people who actively refuse to play better and shun any kind of advice?
and again you are implying OP and others are losing their mind or sleep over it which is frankly insulting and doesn't help your argument one bit, it just makes you look childish and petty
why are people so against others wanting the average player to (want to) get better? I don't get it

[linayar]

why are people so against others wanting the average player to (want to) get better? I don't get it

Personally, I'm not. But wanting others to get better is not the same as helping others to get better. And I don't necessarily blame them for not wanting to help, as people have their own reasons to play and limited time to play.

But that's why making your own group is always the best choice if you're not comfortable with the way the "average" player per your own personal anecdotal experience plays. This goes for everyone, but generally, the duty finder tends to favor those who are not as critical about others while the party finder tends to favor those who are more critical of others, so making your own group is more suitable for the latter type of players, although running with friends also helps every type of players.

[Vinupra-Rosa]

the OPs humble brag aside, how are they wrong in the sense that many players do not know how to play their f-ing job adequately?

The assertion that "50% of all players" are "leechers" is overblown. The DF is on average, painfully average. My last four DF runs had me consistently second on aggro list right behind the tank, and that's alright? The runs themselves were neither particularly bad or good. People did mechanics correctly and the run was finished in average time. Friends of mine also report the same general trend, with truly 'bad' runs with obviously 'bad' people being not that common just as the truly 'good' runs from being paired with all-good people being also not that common.

why are you arguing in defense of people who actively refuse to play better and shun any kind of advice?

I'm arguing in favour of not immediately assuming the worst of people for underperforming. My stance has been consistent - if someone is performing badly, offer help and offer it kindly. It is then their perogative on whether or not to accept help and, if they refuse and their stubbornness is causing the party grief you may remove them then. (But for the simple fact that they're 'underperforming'? There are too many reasons behind why that may be the case outside of sheer malice or laziness so that in itself is not kick-worthy)

and again you are implying OP and others are losing their mind or sleep over it which is frankly insulting and doesn't help your argument one bit, it just makes you look childish and petty

One simply has to look at OP's tone. In the matter in which they refer to 'underperformers' (and their humble-brag plays into this: if they seriously think that they are average, then it stands to reason their idea on what is 'underperforming' might also be higher than is reasonable). Also in the suggestions they made. Yes, they certainly do sound absolutely livid and seem to be losing sleep at the thought of being 'shackled with underperformers' who are naught but 'social parasites' that are 'part of this great community' and are 'taking advantage of them'.

why are people so against others wanting the average player to (want to) get better? I don't get it

Which leads me to think you're missing my point entirely. As I said earlier in this response, my one single consistent stance is help people; I do hold the sentiment of wanting everyone to be better overall. And if you are bothered enough by people who are "underperforming" by your standards to complain about them then by all means extend a helping hand and help them get better. Do this, and do this with the genuine intent to help (and not, like some people do, to lord over others) then a surprising majority of players will heed your help. My last week literally had me in three different DF runs with 'underperformers' and all of them took to advice quite well. And this is the only thing you can do with 'underperformers' if you do indeed want these people to get better.

There will be some who will be stubborn and go 'you don't pay my sub (tm)' and there is nothing you can do about them yourself other than remove them from the party if they are indeed being that big of a bother/hinderance to the party's performance. Complaining about them does nothing, and trying to raise a call of arms against these people will, again, do nothing but end up in dirt flinging threads like you see here. These people exist. Acknowledge and accept their existence and deal with them as appropriate when you encounter them in the wild.

And I did also raise a point in making the average player want to get better --- and that's by being a bloody role model. Show new/unskilled players how things are done. That is why I was vehemently against OP's tiered DF in the first place.

Going to get shit for this but I am one if those players that thinks if a tank is scared they should not be a tank.

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