"Play XIV if(cont)" and"you have a responsibility to" are not statements that coexist

[ItMe]

People got into the Final Fantasy series for the story. If they didn't, they would have focused on a more challenging, gameplay focused series.

A.) People go into FF for any number of reasons (I personally hate the writing for 99% of Final Fantasy games). Heck, a lot of the people I know play FF games either because they're pretty or because they're popular/high profile.

B.) Why can't a game have a good story and good gameplay? It's not like SQEX 1 person working on both things and they need to choose which to prioritize.

[Novae]

OP, just do your thing in game, you'll realize that DF and PF are pretty chill places (yes even in savage). And to be honest, playing a job at its best is very satisfying. It's just the same as cooking a good meal. It's a really positive experience for you and everyone else around the table.

[Puremallace]

One section of FF14 I will never do is Savage raiding. If I wanted to get yelled at by neckbeards hyper concerned with parses in an MMO then I would just go back to WoW that allows actual addons and coordinated guilds not people playing pretend.

Noone at Square Enix actually enforces the rules on using DPS meters and the proof is they have a MASSIVE list of players on FFlogs that use it actively that they do literally nothing about. It is pretty hypocritical of them to say they are against meters but then allow an entire site to be built around it.

[Arillyn]

Can people not enjoy a final fantasy game and play well at the same time?

Just tell people that you don't know the raid mechanics and people will help. You are supposed to know how to play your job, though. Double pulls are possible even in a dungeon you are new to, because they are all similar enough.

So much this. I love final fantasy games. I also enjoy MMOs. I'm glad I get to do both in this game. I love the story. I also try and play my best in everything I go in to. It's fun watching mobs melt.

[Enla]

OP, just do your thing in game, you'll realize that DF and PF are pretty chill places (yes even in savage). And to be honest, playing a job at its best is very satisfying. It's just the same as cooking a good meal. It's a really positive experience for you and everyone else around the table.

Yep, I'm not the best DPS as a healer (generally parse green or blue, sometimes grey if I'm having a bad day) but my static doesn't mind that so long as I actually put in the effort and keep them alive. Even outside of my static most people aren't going to get on my case for low numbers. More often than not people get mad at you for deaths that harm the party more than damage numbers anyways - as when I'm farming higher content that's almost always what gets people kicked. Not the grey parse, but the fact that their constant mistakes are making it impossible to clear. Just put forth a genuine effort and 99% of the players in this game will honestly not care unless you're doing Ultimates. If you sit back and expect to be carried however then yes, people do have a right to be annoyed.

[Penthea]

But they the community turns around and says things like if you're not longer a sprout, you don't have room to make mistakes.

I very rarely see this attitude. Usually people are fine if you just apologise for your mistake.

"If you don't want to be an amazing player and metagamer, you shouldn't be playing XIV."

The last time I saw someone say something like that was several years ago in WoW. Never seen it in FFXIV. I'm sure there are people with this opinion and express it in game but my impression is that they're rare.

And among the most toxic things in that variety was a tank in a party telling someone off by saying "I know what I'm doing". And they seemed like an aggressive person in general.

If one of the most toxic things you have seen being said in a game is "I know what I'm doing" then consider yourself very lucky. I have seen people tell others to end their own lives just because their performance wasn't good enough. And no that was not in FFXIV. Calling your quote toxic is a stretch at best.

OP I can't claim to know exactly how you approach the game but judging from what you have written something that shouldn't be happening is definitely happening. It doesn't sound like I'm even playing the same game as you.

Maybe you're hanging with the wrong people and they put you into bad situations without you realising it, maybe you're not as good at the game as you think you are and you do need to improve to be considered at least decent, perhaps you are reading far more into comments than people actually mean and assume they intend the worst, or maybe you don't know when it's time to leave a group and instead you stay to unnecessarily endure more toxicity. I don't know what's going on but I really think a change somewhere is needed. If what you say is true then you are getting into an incredibly large amount of unpleasant situations and that is not normal. FFXIV is well known for having one of the most chilled out mmorpg communities, and yet you describe it as if it's frequently like my worst days in WoW.

You also may need to face the fact that not everyone is going to be nice. Online gaming is just like real life when it comes to people. There are good and bad everywhere. If you can't handle that then maybe online gaming isn't for you. I'm not saying you have to grin and bear it, but I am saying you need to get yourself into a mental space in which you accept some people are not going to be pleasant and know when to call it quits instead of sticking around with the group and making yourself even more unhappy.

[Vidu]

One section of FF14 I will never do is Savage raiding. If I wanted to get yelled at by neckbeards hyper concerned with parses in an MMO then I would just go back to WoW that allows actual addons and coordinated guilds not people playing pretend.

What if I told you that you can do Savage raiding in FFXIV without getting yelled at?
Make no mistake: I dont want to convince anyone to raid who isnt intrested in it, but I dont think its a fair representation of raiding as whole what you're describing here... I wont doubt that there are statics out there like that - but its very possible to find a more casual raidgroup or from one consisting of friends or more like minded people (the kind that doesnt like to yell or get yelled at).

You do you, of course... but personally I'm enjoying yell-free raiding with friends for over 4 years now. We're far, far from making any world first lists, but we're having lots of fun - and no yelling.

[Packetdancer]

Noone at Square Enix actually enforces the rules on using DPS meters and the proof is they have a MASSIVE list of players on FFlogs that use it actively that they do literally nothing about. It is pretty hypocritical of them to say they are against meters but then allow an entire site to be built around it.

It's very common to write overly-broad rules and then apply them much more narrowly. If you write very specific rules, after all, then people will examine those rules with a magnifying glass to try to figure out exactly what loopholes they can slip through to obey the letter of the law rather than the spirit. In contrast, if you write very broad rules, then if someone needs to be smacked you can just point to that all-encompassing rule. This is why a lot of companies will write rules that are phrased far more broadly than they ever intend to enforce, because it lets them plug any potential loopholes that might exist in more specifically-written alternatives.

So I can't imagine they're going to enforce "no parsers", because it's not actually the parser they care about; things like parsers or combat analysis could be invaluable when it comes to improving your own performance. What they seem to take issue with is when people wield a parser like a weapon to treat others abusively for performing "too poorly" or whatever. But by writing it as "no parsers", they can just be like "well, you were abusive to someone by citing their parse; by having that parse you have violated The Rules, so into the penalty box you go".

That's why I can't imagine there will ever be an official parser; I get the impression they figure that if the game had a parser built in, some people would take it as permission to be cruel to others over their performance. Because, hey, if the devs didn't want people demanding specific performance, they wouldn't include a way to measure that performance, right? (And perhaps they're right; while I like to think the community is generally very friendly, there is a non-zero number of jerks in any online community of sufficient size.)

[Puremallace]

What if I told you that you can do Savage raiding in FFXIV without getting yelled at?
Make no mistake: I dont want to convince anyone to raid who isnt intrested in it, but I dont think its a fair representation of raiding as whole what you're describing here... I wont doubt that there are statics out there like that - but its very possible to find a more casual raidgroup or from one consisting of friends or more like minded people (the kind that doesnt like to yell or get yelled at).

You do you, of course... but personally I'm enjoying yell-free raiding with friends for over 4 years now. We're far, far from making any world first lists, but we're having lots of fun - and no yelling.

Look this nice community everyone praises FF14 stops at the party finder for Savage fights and getting this harmonious static group concept that was developed when this MMO was 7/8 of the way to being dead over 7 years ago is not my idea of fun. There is a good reason FF14 is not known for its raid content and this static stuff, memorizing 12+ min fights and maintaining perfect rotations to keep from getting yelled at is why.

You can paint whatever rosy picture you want but when it comes to Savage raiding that is easily the biggest turn off for most new players who would just go back to WoW if they wanted that much of a toxic experience. I avoid it and I am definitely not alone in that opinion. It is a night and day experience with this MMO that makes a lot of people stop trying.

If the high end communities goal was to drive as many people away from savage then they have succeeded without a doubt. There is a reason Delubrum Savage was dead content within a week and they had to change the rules for how to queue for it and it is not because the content was boring.

The easiest way to fix all of this for Square Enix would be to give HEAVY incentives for FC's to form into more coordinated raiding groups with bigger Savage raids of 16+ people. That alone would kill this static clique stuff you see and force people to organize into groups that see each other more often then once every content patch cycle.

[NanaWiloh]

I don't think it's a heresy to anyone. There's a reason that they've banned some streamers using parsers for calling out other people and being toxic.

Being able to clear dungeons ought to be enough. But this forum already has many people who immediately shoot down ideas because "this might ruin the balance and nobody wants to have someone in their party with slightly less job efficiency". That degree of hyperfocus on efficiency, any everything outside of it being limited to limit jobs, seems obsessive. Every job has always been able to clear all dungeons. And a hyperfocus on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, at the cost of anything that might bring diversity to play. Seems like an unhealthy fixation. Not to mention people not being accommodating to new players. You don't have to be a sprout to be new. People who rushed through the MSQ are still sprouts in a sense, even if the game doesn't call them sprouts.

There are people out there who will downright tell people that they don't deserve to play Final Fantasy XIV because of a mistake they made. And that's not healthy for any game, let alone a Final Fantasy game.

I play to the best of my ability, I dont mind people who parse. But as someone who does not do savage or Ultimate my performance in my mind is my own business. I have hidden my logs ON THE SITE that shall not be mentioned for this reason; and the fact that someone chose to jump on my tail here on the forum about not parsing high. Even worse said player was hiding behind an alt!!! Which explains my signature :P If you are hiding your logs or hiding behind an alt, then you got no business critizing other players about their logs.

Just my two cents on that matter