Monk has too many Positionals

[Kolsykol]

People who don’t play MNK already killed greased lightning, how mind numbingly dumb do you all want to make this job.

Do the side set, then the back set, when you are comfortable with that, then you can start weaving in the right moves when needed.

You literally just need to stay on the bosses diagonal and side step one way or the other two move from flank/rear

Tbh I kinda like the removal of GL and it being turned into a passive.
The problem is that the Job feels a bit empty because there was no other mechanic added.

At least before keeping GL up was a mechanic you were handling, now it's not and nothing took its place so Monk feels more unfinished in a way.
My hope is that we'll get a new and more fun mechanic to replace it that feels more rewarding.
Right now I kinda understand people who feel like turning GL into a passive oversimplified it etc, but I am fine with it IF we get new toys in Endwalkers.
If we don't well I'll probably have a more negative view of it, but I view it atm as setup for the next expansion ( hopefully ).

[Sqwall]

Monk is hot topic currently because there are those that believe monk is "complex" and "hard to learn" and I personally think they like it "exclusive". Stop kidding yourselves in thinking your part of an ELITE crowd that can play monk "optimally".....*sarcastic thumbs up*

....no. Monk isn't hard to learn...in fact it's quite easy to learn from level 1 to 80 you have TON'S of practice. Even when I had GL to contend with at 2.0 into 5.0....it was never hard.

Monk's WHOLE existence post 2.0 is summed up in one word for me: Exhausting

Where monk misses the mark is in the OP comments, it has to many positionals that give mediocre results. It's not that monk is hard...it's just a crappy job to play due to it's exhausting mechanics. GL made it worse compounding the pressure.

But where I am divided is when people that think monk should stay the way it is. That's what really get's me going. "Yeah give us more stupid stuff!"

Monk is a train wreck that derailed back in heavensward and has been piling up for 3 expansions now. Removing greased lightning was evidence that they didn't think past 2 expansions of what a job mechanic Greased Lightning would have on the game. A burden in the end.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this, and to believe removing it was a mistake is missing the point entirely.

"GL was fine, it made monk...monk" the purists would cry!

GL sucked, and it would have been WORSE in 6.0. How do I know this...because adding that 4th GL stack was the nail in the coffin for monk. It was the crutch that propped monk up, and the masses were OVERJOYED when they were like "ZOMG 4 GL *swoon*"

I just shook my head and thought "More of this crap?" "Where is the evolution? Where is the QOL? Where is this going?" Then 5.0 came out we got Anatman, SSS, and a new trait, an AOE combo, and AOE chakra spender, and that's about it. I used 1 skill from 5.0...sometimes.

If an employee came up to me and said here's what we came up with boss! Handed me the paper with these monk changes I would have read it, and said "You might want to try again and think about what we already don't use on Monk....Let's fix those first, and then you can experiment"

Removing GL is admitting to a mistake, and the misguided treatment of monk. You can talk about min-max alllllllllllllll you want, and potency this, and potency that. Optimal rotation and positioning *as you push your glasses up your nose*, at the end of the day....Monk is not the old monk anymore, and I for one HOPE THEY SMASH IT TO PIECES IN 6.0! Change it completely...give me something NEW! Because what you have been giving me for the last 8 years...that stuff sucked, and SE knows it to, cause they removed GL.

I know I'll get flamed for this, and I personally enjoy the comments made here on these forums. Heck I hope SE sees this! I don't have to see a therapist and the conversations are a hoot.

[Sqwall]

My hope is that we'll get a new and more fun mechanic to replace it that feels more rewarding.
Right now I kinda understand people who feel like turning GL into a passive oversimplified it etc, but I am fine with it IF we get new toys in Endwalkers.
If we don't well I'll probably have a more negative view of it, but I view it atm as setup for the next expansion ( hopefully ).

I believe in this sentiment completely and know that there are many that disagree. Imagine a Monk that is BETTER then what we have ever had. Crazy I know, and some people just flat out refuse to think that a job can ultimately more FUN then it ever was. I don't play FFXIV for bragging rights, and they don't hand out awards for being the best monk ever. I'm married (10 years), two kids, two dogs, a cat, a good career. I play it for FUN and to destress, and if I don't have FUN or add to my stress? I don't play. I know this....SE knows this...their shareholders know this... see where i'm going with this?

Make EVERY job/class fun...and who knows where this game could go! 30million subs?. Crazy thought I know...it's like FUN and paying customers go hand in hand.

[Garet]

Tbh I kinda like the removal of GL and it being turned into a passive.
The problem is that the Job feels a bit empty because there was no other mechanic added.

At least before keeping GL up was a mechanic you were handling, now it's not and nothing took its place so Monk feels more unfinished in a way.
My hope is that we'll get a new and more fun mechanic to replace it that feels more rewarding.
Right now I kinda understand people who feel like turning GL into a passive oversimplified it etc, but I am fine with it IF we get new toys in Endwalkers.
If we don't well I'll probably have a more negative view of it, but I view it atm as setup for the next expansion ( hopefully ).

I did not play monk until i returned to this game last month so did not really experience monk while it has greased lightning as non-passive. But I agree with you and Sqwall though. Looking at it, I really don't think it is what makes monk.. a monk. TBH I find monk fun and has some of the most awesome animation in the game. Those kicks, punches and street fighter like moves are awesome to see. LB3..you can literally feel the power gathering in your punch.

Postionals for me is no longer as hard having played it in almost two weeks. However I admit my reflex memory is not that fast anymore unlike when I was younger...Brain latency if you will lol. So my problem with monk is I get stressed out playing it cuz of the need to constantly look if i need to reapply demolish already or if it has fallen off during complicated boss fights. So it seems a little rigidity is more for me and looked at sam and my former drg. I will definitely level monk though and really am optimistic SE will give out an awesome rework on it for endwalker.

And like you said. losing some of the positionals is not that big of dps loss as long as you try to hit most of it and correctly weave in your other skills. Unlike other jobs wherein losing a combo string literally breaks it. I love that with monk it is so fluid and versatile we can always finish our combos. Sometimes in my Drg I did not notice one of my combo did not hit or failed to activate and i continue pressing the other ones only to discover my combo string is gone and had to restart from the very beginning sigh

[Sqwall]

I did not play monk until i returned to this game last month so did not really experience monk while it has greased lightning as non-passive. But I agree with you and Sqwall though. Looking at it, I really don't think it is what makes monk.. a monk. TBH I find monk fun and has some of the most awesome animation in the game. Those kicks, punches and street fighter like moves are awesome to see. LB3..you can literally feel the power gathering in your punch.

Postionals for me is no longer as hard having played it in almost two weeks. However I admit my reflex memory is not that fast anymore unlike when I was younger...Brain latency if you will lol. So my problem with monk is I get stressed out playing it cuz of the need to constantly look if i need to reapply demolish already or if it has fallen off during complicated boss fights. So it seems a little rigidity is more for me and looked at sam and my former drg. I will definitely level monk though and really am optimistic SE will give out an awesome rework on it for endwalker.

And like you said. losing some of the positionals is not that big of dps loss as long as you try to hit most of it and correctly weave in your other skills. Unlike other jobs wherein losing a combo string literally breaks it. I love that with monk it is so fluid and versatile we can always finish our combos. Sometimes in my Drg I did not notice one of my combo did not hit or failed to activate and i continue pressing the other ones only to discover my combo string is gone and had to restart from the very beginning sigh

Someone who get's it! I also never thought GL is what makes a monk a monk. I was HAPPY when it was removed and traited out. New the crosshairs are placed right over the positionals it seems as of late and it honestly get's me excited that we are talking about monk specifically. You brought up a great point about demolish timer on or off the boss. I would honestly be happy with demolish being a 40 sec DOT, and give me room to experiment with my combos.

Also is it REALLY that hard to add a Twin Snakes timer to the Chackra gauge? DRK has it...why not monk!? instead i'm forced to jumble my HUD around so that I know when it's up or not up. Stupid.... I suppose nobody remembers that you had to look at your buff bar back in 2.0 to see how many GL stacks you had. They gave us a GL gauge in heavensward....REVOLUTIONARY! BRILLIANT!

Hell give the 20% damage buff from fist of fire to Demolish, remove the DOT effect....remove the stances....and give me back Touch of Death that costs 1 chackra to use. No matter how you slice it there are SOOO many possibilities and I for one want MORE then what we have now.

[IruruCece]

Monk is hot topic currently because there are those that believe monk is "complex" and "hard to learn" and I personally think they like it "exclusive". Stop kidding yourselves in thinking your part of an ELITE crowd that can play monk "optimally".....*sarcastic thumbs up*

When you actually start responding to what people are saying, you might be taken seriously. Nobody who puts in effort to hit positionals is an "elite" just because of that alone. It just means they're putting out more effort than people who just want to sit in one place and hit "only 50%" of their positionals.

[ssunny2008]

But I tried moving one of the combos to a different keybind location and found it considerably easier, and far more enjoyable.

I use my left mouse button to hit 95% of all my skills, meanwhile i move around with WASD / double mouseclick, click on other players to heal / shield and tab back on the boss. I do this on every char and often find a cigarette between my fingers. It´s not so hard to get used to the classes or the fights. Everyone can find a way as you did, but hey it´s always easier to complain "how bad something is designed."

...

Always funny to read your nonsense. Yeah MNK isn´t hard to play and still you´re not good enough to do it properly obviously. Instead of practicing, you stay in this forum and spread tons of nonsense in the hope your "punching-class" will get changed in your casual favor.

You´re one of those guys i do hate. You´re the reason why the gaming industry got fckd up over the years. Good games got doomed to cater guys like you, but the sad thing is, that you won´t stop complaining. You´re that kind of guy, who would even start a great game like Sekiro, just to write a negative review and spam "The game is bs, it´s too hard, totally unfair, etc..."
Once gaming was really fun even if it was challenging. But those days are gone thx to guys like you who refuse to adapt or to find the "issue" in themself instead of the game. You won´t even let enjoy others their favorite role when 16 others are available for you, just because of some selfish reasons.

You´re not a gamer, just a fed casual who think "I´ve the best idea ever!". But the sad truth is, you have no gamesense, not even an idea what this great rework should look like. All you want is to get ride of positionals and stay 24/7 at the boss meanwhile playing such dumb "spread / stack" mechanics.

I know I'll get flamed for this, and I personally enjoy the comments made here on these forums. Heck I hope SE sees this! I don't have to see a therapist and the conversations are a hoot.

Says enough about you troll.

Snip 2

Look... some more "super professional ideas".

"Let´s experiment with the rotation and a 40s DoT."...... nice jokes so far... it´s not like the rotation would change somehow. All i can see is you who forgets to use demolish every 40s. FF14 is a rotation game and no class has the comfort to change things like the player wants them to be. It´s not like you just have to use TS every 2nd 123. Must be really hard to play without a fed visual appearance blocking half of your screen.
Maybe you should ask for a new class instead of trashing already existing ones even more.

When you actually start responding to what people are saying, you might be taken seriously. Nobody who puts in effort to hit positionals is an "elite" just because of that alone. It just means they're putting out more effort than people who just want to sit in one place and hit "only 50%" of their positionals.

You can write whatever you want. The response would be filled with tons of nonsense anyway. He ate the wisdom in the early age and we all can be proud to be able to read his phenomenal advices here. We´re all just pure elitists in a low effort game who try to hold back a class from his bright 123-GG future.
Actually, i´m pretty proud to see a non savage player arguing FOR the class. It´s really rare these days to find guys like you who see and accept how the things work, even if endgame or challenges are no thing for them for whatever reason. That´s what i call a gamer.

[Mikey_R]

Make EVERY job/class fun...and who knows where this game could go! 30million subs?. Crazy thought I know...it's like FUN and paying customers go hand in hand.

Every job/class IS fun....for someone. That is the important thing, for someone. Noone or at least very few people, are going to enjoy every single job the game has o offer. For me, Dancer, Bard and Ninja are probably the lowest on my DPS preference list. However, and I have said this before, that does not mean I should want to change these jobs to ones that I would enjoy. The whole reason all the jobs are different is so that everyone can find something they can enjoy, they are not trying to make everything cater to everyone.

You have already stated that Monk is not hard, and no, it isn't, but that is the point. It is not hard, so why make it easier by removing positionals. As stated in the past, alot of the fun comes from figuring out the dance needed to no mechanics and hit as many positionals as possible. This is something people do enjoy, myself included, so why take it away just because a very small population of people do not like it.

I reiterate, not everyone is going to like every job and that is fine, however, trying to take the enjoyment out of a job you do not like that others do, that is where you have to be told to back off.

[Jirah]

Every job/class IS fun....for someone. That is the important thing, for someone. Noone or at least very few people, are going to enjoy every single job the game has o offer. For me, Dancer, Bard and Ninja are probably the lowest on my DPS preference list. However, and I have said this before, that does not mean I should want to change these jobs to ones that I would enjoy. The whole reason all the jobs are different is so that everyone can find something they can enjoy, they are not trying to make everything cater to everyone.

You have already stated that Monk is not hard, and no, it isn't, but that is the point. It is not hard, so why make it easier by removing positionals. As stated in the past, alot of the fun comes from figuring out the dance needed to no mechanics and hit as many positionals as possible. This is something people do enjoy, myself included, so why take it away just because a very small population of people do not like it.

I reiterate, not everyone is going to like every job and that is fine, however, trying to take the enjoyment out of a job you do not like that others do, that is where you have to be told to back off.

Agreed! Example being I dont like DNC its boring and has a simple kit that would make MCH blush but since it has a large following i dont want it to be complex for me, the simplicity is its own appeal thats beyond me.

...but like if it does ill hit it up but its not a recomended course. Leave jobs with there quirks they shouldn't have to cut off there limbs to please as many ppl as possible becuase thats a never ending struggle to the bane of the game. Job Singularity

[wereotter]

I don't think it's the positionals that are the crux of the problem. To me it was the six different buttons to maintain the baseline combo, combined with tanks not moving the bosses to enable safer utilization of the positional bonuses (aka keeping the boss in a position where I was being forced to either sacrifice the bonus, or take damage from an AoE on the ground

The six buttons you'll get used to if you stick with the job (remember that dragoon has even more buttons for its base rotation)

But the other really is the bane of melee players in general, but especially monks. This is a symptom of bad tanks rather than a problem with the melee job. I don't think melees should be dumbed down because tanks aren't doing their job properly, though. We already can see how tanks are complaining about how agro generation got dumbed down because no one else wanted to use their tools last expansion, and I think it'll be the same reaction if they did this to melees. It definitely is better with more experienced tanks that know they shouldn't dance around the boss and need to pull more than their nose out of the fire. This is especially true, I found, for tanks that were previously melee mains.