Quote Originally Posted by ItMe View Post
Not necessarily.
The term is so vague that it can easily encompass single player games where you raid with AI allies.
As long as you're part of a group (human or otherwise) the term sticks.
I honestly don't consider content with AI allies as raiding. I see them more as single player content due to the fact that you're playing with bots, not other people. I also apply the same logic with PvP, "PvP" with bots isn't really PvP, it needs players, like how Raiding needs players. Unless the AI starts speaking in voice chat and becoming sentient, then I'll keep holding that view.

But that raises the question if these things are fun because they're fun, or because you're with your friends.
Why not both? It's fun and it's fun to do it with people. That's like implying that playing Team sports isn't fun. Team sports are fun because the game is fun and playing with other people are fun.

And it's not like raiders don't socialize either, we do. There's multiple discord servers related to raiding, people arguing about rotations, theorycrafting about melds, sharing fight-specific strats and tips. Like even just doing content is socializing, especially with a group of friends. People make fun of each other for getting damage down, Healers call out what they heal or who they will rez. People call out who's north blue or south blue, and people talk shit between pulls, and meme between pulls.

Hell, I've made a lot of my good friends from raiding in this game. We're not all robots that only cares about the order of how we press our buttons. There's a reason that it's called a raiding community.

If you strip away the socializing, raiding seems to be a hollow enough experience that it can't carry a game. So basing a game AROUND raiding (when it's strongest point is the socializing that happens around and outside the game)... might not be the best idea.
I think what you meant here is the side fluff that happens in the game. I do agree that FFXIV can't survive right now if it gets rid of the fluff, because there's very few content in the game itself that's actually repeatable. The game relies on players actually making content for themselves, so of course it's not gonna stand without the fluff.

What it definitely needs is repeatable raids and content that's outside of the 8-Man Savages and Ultimate. And frankly, it can benefit from that focus a whole lot. Maybe Savage dungeons? Maybe Savage raid mutations? I don't know, but it needs something.



Quote Originally Posted by Edax View Post
But like I said, team deathmatch still works in single player. Same with those horde mode games. It all works as multiplayer or single player because there is something inherently fun about direct competition or defending an objective to the last man in a siege.

But taking a very large team to take down a boss with massive attacks in order to get powerful items is a niche concept, the gameplay almost resembles trying to nail a synchronized swimming routine, it does not inherently appear to be a fun concept and you don't see such concepts explored often in single player. And I posited you don't see these type of raiding games in single player for good reason, it is not inherently fun trying to memorize and act out a routine.
This is a direct criticism to FFXIV content in general. They're pretty static, so after doing it once, most people just either farm for gear or do it once and it's over. I'll give you that the choreographed static mechanics doesn't work in single player, but it's because it doesn't work as repeatable content as well. I'm 100% in support of making raid content replayable other than static.

Regardles though, most games that does have raiding aren't like this. Some, like Destiny 2, rely on the non-static raid design and the good gunplay to make things repeatable. Some, like WoW, rely on pure raid design that's mostly unpredictable, and some like unconventional games like GTFO and Monster Hunter rely on good 'ole RNG to make it replayable.

I agree that FFXIV raiding needs work, but saying that no game can actually revolve around raiding and have it fun is just an uninformed opinion.