FF14 devs just keep doing your thing because my god

[Sqwall]

They can be compared perfectly because even though they are totally old, FFXI continues to update with PVE content to this day, even when the story ended in 2015 the game continues to update with PVE content and when they tried to do something different like PVP it was a failure tremendous.

Wow also has that focus and it is a matter of seeing the constant updates and what they focus on when developing. As for example in PSO2 some updates of the game only focused on giving more social aspects to the players, in which the players feel at home and that they can change of scene more easily with the absurd amount of cosmetics. That is why when New Genesis was announced, one of the important aspects that they announced was what would happen with cosmetics and emotes.

Your comparing apples to oranges. Allow me to use this analogy.
WoW has a skin that I can eat and may be a little chewy. very sweet inside and satisfying. Instantly available off the shelf for enjoyment.
FFXI has a skin that must be removed as it tastes terrible. I must peel that away to see the what lies inside. Given the time and work put in I will enjoy myself.

WoW was SOOO user friendly that it didn't have to explain hardly anything. You were off to the races and everything was laid out slowly and controlled linearity at first until giving you the world. Really good game design and a detailed manual.
FFXI was the opposite of user friendly and you quite literally had to fight with it to update, talk to others for advice, learn where to grind, the enigma of crafting, the sub systems that are BARELY explained. BUTTTTT when you understood all of that you quite literally became a walking encyclopedia of knowledge for others. The community was shaped by the players in FFXI.

[Dzian]

Your comparing apples to oranges. Allow me to use this analogy.
WoW has a skin that I can eat and may be a little chewy. very sweet inside and satisfying. Instantly available off the shelf for enjoyment.
FFXI has a skin that must be removed as it tastes terrible. I must peel that away to see the what lies inside. Given the time and work put in I will enjoy myself.

WoW was SOOO user friendly that it didn't have to explain hardly anything. You were off to the races and everything was laid out slowly and controlled linearity at first until giving you the world. Really good game design and a detailed manual.
FFXI was the opposite of user friendly and you quite literally had to fight with it to update, talk to others for advice, learn where to grind, the enigma of crafting, the sub systems that are BARELY explained. BUTTTTT when you understood all of that you quite literally became a walking encyclopedia of knowledge for others. The community was shaped by the players in FFXI.

The thing that made FFXI great for many of its players was how alive Vanadiel was. It was a dynamic living world and that made it unique among MMOs for the longest time. Every action you took as a player had a real impact and changed the game world in some way. It's ironic really that for a game made 20 years ago Vanadiel was a living breathing world and despite newer technology advancements Eorzea is lifeless and dead.

Vanadiel had so many systems in place that shaped the game world. Every monster you killed had some impact on the balance of power in that region. Every defeat you suffered also tipped the balance.. NPCs and vendors would change stocks and prices based on that balance of power. Your travel options would also be influenced, if your naton didn't hold the outpost you couldnt teleport home from that region.

Vanadiel had dynamic zones with various puzzles to. The Sacrarium library had a maze that had a different path through every game day. The Eldieme Necroplois had its various gates you had to juggle the switches for depending on which part of it you actually wanted to get to.. You had the Toramei Canals with the 3 mage gate to open (unless you were famous in windurst and had the moon orb) You had the Quicksand Caves with its weigthed puzzles.1 galka can open a door 2 humes or 3 taru.. So many little things that made places more inteesting and bought them to life.

Vanadiel also had a much more varied set of enviroments. Open zones, underground zones, mines, castles, defkaults tower, indoor zones even inside a giant tree. Zones fellt different in comparison to 14 where every zone in eorzea is just a bland big open dead space and lifeless.

Vanadiel was also much more populated by players. Eorzea everything is locked off behind instances. So you never see people in the world unless there whacking the same gathering node as you. You dont randomly run past a group of people fighting a boss or anything like that. Unless you count fates but most of the time they're dead and completely ignored anyway and just another thing that doesnt matter..

Fates have no impact or consequence on the world at all which makes them boring and lifeless but again Vanadiel had things that did impact the world. Beseiged, Campaign battles,and I forget the other ones. Things where the outcomes did change the game world.. If you lost at besiged the candescance was stolen and you couldn't teleport. Various NPCs were kidnapped and you had to go rescue them..

The biggest thing really is that in FFXI Vanadiel was quite literally front and centre of everything, Your player was just one inhabitant amoung many. The world wouldnt give way to you. you had to give way to the world. Right down to having to wait for a ferry or airship. all of which bought the game world to life.

In Eorzea and most MMOs of late the player is front and centre and that makes the game worlds dead and lifeless.. If something hapens to eorzea it happens in an instance where it has no effect on the world or anyone else at all.. You are the warrior of light and the 3, 7 or 23 other people you play with are all nobodies...

This is one of the issues with XIV I think. its so focussed on YOU that its essetially a single player experience the people you play with don't matter. and this is where people get bored of it and drop the game because theres no meaningful interactions.. You queue up for content in the duty finder get paired up with random people. if you're lucky you might get a o/ or hi at the statt of the instance and maybe even a gg or tyfp at the end. and thats it. everyone goes there own seperate ways and you never see them again or wouldnt recognise there names if you did. then you go and queue the next duty finder thing and do the same again...

XIV as a game does a great job at pulling fresh new players in... but honestly does a terrible job at keeping them engaged or interested for long.. more and more players getting tired of the same old repetitive boring treadmill and the only thing that keeps them engaged are social connections..

I once said FFXIV is like a cheap restaurant or bar. The food is terrible, the place is a dump and the beer is warm. but if your there with a good group of friends yo ucan still have a good time. (friends being the reason I still play)

I honestly think FFXIV would have been a much better game if they did continue to do there own thing andnot just go the WOW route with everything.. including progression. stuff felt powerful and worth pursuing in XI for example but in XIV everything is just junk you'll throw away tomorrow. which is why so many people don't invest in gear because everything is junk. which makes the game feel less rewarding which when paired with the lack of social connections seems to be a big reason for players dropping it.

[Nayout]

Your comparing apples to oranges. Allow me to use this analogy.
WoW has a skin that I can eat and may be a little chewy. very sweet inside and satisfying. Instantly available off the shelf for enjoyment.
FFXI has a skin that must be removed as it tastes terrible. I must peel that away to see the what lies inside. Given the time and work put in I will enjoy myself.

WoW was SOOO user friendly that it didn't have to explain hardly anything. You were off to the races and everything was laid out slowly and controlled linearity at first until giving you the world. Really good game design and a detailed manual.
FFXI was the opposite of user friendly and you quite literally had to fight with it to update, talk to others for advice, learn where to grind, the enigma of crafting, the sub systems that are BARELY explained. BUTTTTT when you understood all of that you quite literally became a walking encyclopedia of knowledge for others. The community was shaped by the players in FFXI.

But it is that I am comparing the approaches of the games, FFXI always points to the PVE with its patches and only to this to give more content to its players, Wow has always offered PVE content but also focused on a PVP keeping these two things alive that's what I mean.

What they aim for with their updates and patches.

And not to mention, the world of FFXIV is not dead at all, what happens is that it is alive in a VERY different way than that of FFXI, the MSQ and that many of the content you require to go to the area makes you always meet people and It is something that many people who enter this game for the first time emphasize, the problem is that for high level players the game map is absolute rubbish, the FFXIV maps are beautiful and have a variety of environments but it is that removing the Hunts that have different ways of being summoned, it has NOTHING, I compare the map of FFXIV with that of TESO or that of Wow and that is that this game has the decoration map for the MSQ.

[Ralph2449]

The real problem is that you try to aspire to more than you can

Ah yes the "casuals are bad so they dont deserve good gear" mentality, yeah EVERYONE should have a way to get decent gear, and by that I dont mean a single piece a week that is completely RNG dependent on their casino gear system which of course doesnt get affected by any form of casual or solo content.

I was pugging 14s on my affl lock at the start of January and had pugged full heroic, thing is affl lock was seen as "meta" at the time so changed to assa rogue, bought fill 200 covenant set and mythic boes and was 205 first week after I was done, guess what, the only way to do m+ at then was to buy boosts, why? If you didnt have 1.2k IO good luck getting into groups, and you should know even 1kIO requires all dungeons to be done and above 10, so good luck getting a non meta class get into those no matter how good you are.

Of course you might be happy to wait for hours to do a +5 and have a ton of groups disband midway and quite literally spend months to only reach the +11 wall where people require 1.2k io for 12+ these days which you arent gonna get without boosts or a static team within guilds.

So please dont confuse casual with one's ability and imply "they aspire more than they can"

to say that you don't have "space" for being casual is a damn lie

Gear progression completely gutted for casuals who are stuck near 200ilvl unless they force themselves to play with obnoxious elitists and metaslaves, the "you must be trolling to play non meta spec" type, challenging solo content exists yet rewards have been stripped from it because tryhards complained, their "casual" rewards include a huge anima grind for silly upgrades and mogs that dont give any power and take MONTHS to upgrade fully.

And please, let's not use Torghast as an argument when those floors are totally optional in the same way that it is optional here to complete the 200 floors of Palace of the dead.

That was never the point, the point was that challenging solo content exists yet the devs because they pander to high end removed rewards because god forbid the elitists are forced to play the "dirty casual content, they got no time for that", this was admitted when they said in alpha that "they dont want to repeat horrific visions" when it comes to gear.

last week on a 12+ the tank tried to make me switch to MM, I didn't pay attention to it we completed the dungeon and I was top DPS.

Great proof of how full of metaslaves even low end community has become, it doesnt matter if you are decent or if they arent that skilled, they ll still push you to become a metaslave, thank god SE has rules against compelling playstyles on others because that attitude has run rampart within the entire WoW community.

[Iscah]

Personally I hate role quest and find them as cheap replacements for job quest. You might be able to justify them in Shadowbringers but stripping them from Endwalker seems like a case of cheap penny pinching and slowly killing RPG elements of the MMO.

Maybe they're not so good for "job identity" but I actually like the handling of the role quests at a larger story scale - we've never had any sort of connection between the various job quests, but the roles have their capstone quest and join up to other elements of the story. It's a lot more viable to do that with one plot thread per role than with all the unique jobs.

Not everything has to connect up like that, of course, but it hasn't just been a case of "less quests = bad".

Or my "first page" had stuff from like 2016, even though my sort was standard and there was 2019 stuff too.

That was probably the point where that troll was bumping all the old threads and the mods weren't stopping it.

I just think the jobs need more flare, when possible (not harming balance).

BLM has flare. (You're looking for flair though.)

I understand what you're trying to get it, but it's only sort of true and I don't think it hurts anyone if a dragoon could jump higher or take less fall damage simply to better give that job identity. Nor is it out of place concept in the game, given ninja passive or bard music.

Less fall damage would be fine, maybe, but higher jumping means that zones have to be built with that in consideration so they can't get to places they're not supposed to.

[Shougun]

That was probably the point where that troll was bumping all the old threads and the mods weren't stopping it.

Nah, the last posts were also old. The whole front page was just like. . . "what??". This was before the reign of Titans. Although it could have related to some other silly addon I've on, I've a few monkey scripts for this. Sssssssssssssssssoooooooooo some issues might be my fault in a more complicated way.

BLM has flare. (You're looking for flair though.)

No I mean flare!!!!! ...... no I dont >.<

Less fall damage would be fine, maybe, but higher jumping means that zones have to be built with that in consideration so they can't get to places they're not supposed to.

I've actually accounted for that in the other ideas I posted on the topic about it (it's not like this is the first time I've suggested I feel FFXIV doesn't give jobs enough flair)- saying that the ability can take in account if you've unlocked flight or not. In this way you don't break yourself or the zone.

Not sure why maybe on less fall damage though, Ninja already has it lol. And those are just the most obvious generic ideas- I strongly believe they could go further.

[Jojoya]

Because if you raid in WoW, you Are using DBM. There's no way around it. If you don't, you don't raid.

Did you ever stop to think how DBM knows what to display? It's because information on mechanics gets collected by players who are raiding without it and that information then gets used to set up the DBM timers, etc.

You can absolutely raid in WoW without using DBM. It does take using your brain. You will progress slower at first than those who have it but you can raid in WoW without it just as most players here raid without it.

The reason most groups require DBM to be installed is because most people are brain dead and can't think. I knew plenty of players who would install DBM to satisfy those who scan for it then would leave all the indicators disabled.

[Puremallace]

The reason most groups require DBM to be installed is because most people are brain dead and can't think. I knew plenty of players who would install DBM to satisfy those who scan for it then would leave all the indicators disabled.

Show me your video doing Ashara Heroic much less Mythic without DBM that has 47 separate mechanics. You might be able to brain dead some fights but on a lot of them Blizzard assumes you know the timers hence the 1 shot mechanics with no indication from the bosses.

[Ralph2449]

Did you ever stop to think how DBM knows what to display? It's because information on mechanics gets collected by players who are raiding without it and that information then gets used to set up the DBM timers, etc.

You can absolutely raid in WoW without using DBM. It does take using your brain. You will progress slower at first than those who have it but you can raid in WoW without it just as most players here raid without it.

The reason most groups require DBM to be installed is because most people are brain dead and can't think. I knew plenty of players who would install DBM to satisfy those who scan for it then would leave all the indicators disabled.

I had to use bigwigs(Alternative to DBM) simply because it was a lot easier to disable the ridiculous extra warnings that actually make things worse than actually help imo, the main use I have from these addons is that timer window which shows upcoming timers.

But you are right, the mechanics are shown very clearly without any addons and you dont need any additional assistance for them but these addons have been forced onto everyone due to the community along many others.

[Penthea]

I had to use bigwigs(Alternative to DBM) simply because it was a lot easier to disable the ridiculous extra warnings that actually make things worse than actually help imo, the main use I have from these addons is that timer window which shows upcoming timers.

Oh man when I found bigwigs I never looked back. It was a much nicer add-on that I found to be less obstructive.

But you are right, the mechanics are shown very clearly without any addons and you dont need any additional assistance for them but these addons have been forced onto everyone due to the community along many others.

A lot of raid teams demand that you use boss mods to further reduce the likelihood of error. Yes WoW has in-game warnings about mechanics that will happen or a debuff on your character, but if you also have an add-on informing you of a mechanic before it even happens or get a massive skull on your head with a huge raid warning blasting the centre of your screen when you're debuffed then it becomes really hard to miss something when it happens, which means less mishaps.

The thing is if something will make a fight easier, players are going to use it regardless of how abundantly clear the game is about mechanics. The reason why we can no longer change field marks mid-combat in FFXIV is because some raiders found a way to get an add-on to automatically mark safe spots on the ground which of course trivialised some mechanics. Unsurprisingly SE were not happy about this. They couldn't do anything about the add-on itself so they removed the in-game utility that the add-on used to do its job. A classic case of "this is why we can't have nice things".