!! Fix Healer Rescue

[Theodric]

This point was already addressed; a debuff icon on the party list can tell you who has rescue turned off.

...which just puts further strain on the healer, really. It's already difficult to keep track of who has what buff/debuff - especially in large scale content where a lot of them are going off at the same time. Furthermore, in some cases a successful rescue can prevent the group as a whole from wiping. Some enemy abilities, after all, can cause multiple players to die if they're not performed correctly.

[Goji1639]

...which just puts further strain on the healer, really. It's already difficult to keep track of who has what buff/debuff - especially in large scale content where a lot of them are going off at the same time. Furthermore, in some cases a successful rescue can prevent the group as a whole from wiping. Some enemy abilities, after all, can cause multiple players to die if they're not performed correctly.

They can add something to the characters nameplate/healthbar then, so you can see clearly whether or not the person standing in bad stuff can be Rescued.

As for Rescue's very rarely saving groups from a wipe, that's fine but not a justification to force everyone to endure them all the time.

It cannot use itself, a player must initiate the action in order for it to work.

Right, but the action that's initiated is extremely disruptive, regardless of what the played intended. It's just an intrusive and obnoxious ability on it's face.

[Miracle_Diva]

Right, but the action that's initiated is extremely disruptive, regardless of what the played intended. It's just an intrusive and obnoxious ability on it's face.

Not it isn't. You're overreacting with "losing control of your character" for one second. Maybe try positioning yourself better so there would be no need to use Rescue on you.
I think Provoke is far worse. I absolutely hate random tanks wars for *domination over aggro*, which leads to boss turning, which leads to everyone getting hit in the face by cleaves. But again, you don't see that often with more experienced players. Same thing with Rescue
Also, missclick is a thing too.

[Goji1639]

Not it isn't. You're overreacting with "losing control of your character" for one second. Maybe try positioning yourself better so there would be no need to use Rescue on you.
I think Provoke is far worse. I absolutely hate random tanks wars for *domination over aggro*, which leads to boss turning, which leads to everyone getting hit in the face by cleaves. But again, you don't see that often with more experienced players. Same thing with Rescue
Also, missclick is a thing too.

If you think provoke wars are far worse then make a thread. I don't think there's a simple solution to that one, though.

Also, FFXIV gameplay is extremely position oriented. Repositioning someone may be the most intrusive thing you could do to them.

[Miracle_Diva]

If you think provoke wars are far worse then make a thread. I don't think there's a simple solution to that one, though.

Also, FFXIV gameplay is extremely position oriented. Repositioning someone may be the most intrusive thing you could do to them.

Why should I make a thread about it? It doesn't bother me that much that I would want to get rid of it. I don't have problems with people accidentally misusing Rescue. If I'm being harassed by it - I'll simply report the person and will move on with my day.
Tanks can mess up melee positionals more often than you will be targeted by Rescue. Also *FFXIV gameplay is extremely position oriented* explain this please.
The most intrusive you could do to someone is to stop healing them, just because.

[Packetdancer]

If you think provoke wars are far worse then make a thread. I don't think there's a simple solution to that one, though.

I mean... why not a toggle?

Wouldn't a toggle be a simple enough solution, like you've hypothesized for Rescue? Just make it so that if a tank has the Provoke toggle enabled, other tanks just cannot use Provoke on any target that tank has aggro on. Sure, it could cause confusion when Provoke just failed to work sometimes, yeah, but you could just add a status indicator to the boss' status afflictions bar showing that it is no longer able to be Provoked, and aggro is locked in until the current tank dies. And it causes problems in savage where tank swaps can be necessary, but just insist tanks turn that toggle off in savage so that things they have aggro on can be provoked again.

Sure, there's some complications, but there's complications with a toggle on Rescue, too.

Heck, once toggle functionality is in the game, you might as well use it more than just those two places. I suspect a lot of dancers would love a toggle they could flip that blocked Closed Position from being used by another DNC on the dance partner the first DNC already picked twenty seconds earlier. Or ASTs who'd love a toggle that prevents the other AST in the alliance raid from picking the same sect they did (albeit five minutes later or whatever), or overwriting their cards on the DPS.

[Goji1639]

I mean... why not a toggle?

Wouldn't a toggle be a simple enough solution, like you've hypothesized for Rescue? Just make it so that if a tank has the Provoke toggle enabled, other tanks just cannot use Provoke on any target that tank has aggro on. Sure, it could cause confusion when Provoke just failed to work sometimes, yeah, but you could just add a status indicator to the boss' status afflictions bar showing that it is no longer able to be Provoked, and aggro is locked in until the current tank dies. And it causes problems in savage where tank swaps can be necessary, but just insist tanks turn that toggle off in savage so that things they have aggro on can be provoked again.

Sure, there's some complications, but there's complications with a toggle on Rescue, too.

Heck, once toggle functionality is in the game, you might as well use it more than just those two places. I suspect a lot of dancers would love a toggle they could flip that blocked Closed Position from being used by another DNC on the dance partner the first DNC already picked twenty seconds earlier. Or ASTs who'd love a toggle that prevents the other AST in the alliance raid from picking the same sect they did (albeit five minutes later or whatever), or overwriting their cards on the DPS.

First off, disabling provoke on specific enemies isn't a functionality that's already in the game. In that way the "it may be more complicated to implement than it sounds," rule applies. I'm not even against the idea, though; if it bothers people and it is in fact a simple implementation then create a thread and make your case. Same with any other weird stuff you'd like toggle's for, though I'm pretty sure this is all just false flagging to make some kind of point.

Rescue is a different issue; as it's taking direct control of another players character. Abilities like provoke aren't NEARLY as intrusive so they're less likely to bother people when they're misused. The more intrusive an ability is the less slack it's going to get when people make mistakes with it. It's like I said before, taking control of someone else's character is a bold move; if you're so sure you can play my character better than me that you'd rip my control away, then you'd better not mess up.

[Miracle_Diva]

It's like I said before, taking control of someone else's character is a bold move; if you're so sure you can play my character better than me that you'd rip my control away, then you'd better not mess up.

At this point I'm not sure if you understand how Rescue works at all.

[Packetdancer]

First off, disabling provoke on specific enemies isn't a functionality that's already in the game. In that way the "it may be more complicated to implement than it sounds," rule applies. I'm not even against the idea, though; if it bothers people and it is in fact a simple implementation then create a thread and make your case. Same with any other weird stuff you'd like toggle's for, though I'm pretty sure this is all just false flagging to make some kind of point.

It's not entirely, though I grant I exaggerated a bit to bring a point home.

I have seen more wipes just to Anghra Mainyu due to tanks having Provoke wars and spinning mister angry eyeball such that he cleaves random chunks of the party (a number large enough that I honestly don't have a count) than I have seen wipes on *any content at all* in the game due to Rescue, be it well-intentioned misuse or trolling.

I also know people who are angry that one of the new blue mage spells knocks back everyone, including allies, not just enemies. (Which fundamentally seems like the same thing; Rescue pulls you, but that spells pushes you. Either way, someone else is moving your character.) I know dancers who get angry about other dancers picking the same dance partner after they already have. Etc.

Personally, I (and, evidently, a number of other healers) think if Rescue is a big problem it's better that it just get removed. Yes, it's very useful to save sprouts, to pull someone using the limit break to a safe spot, etc., but I personally don't use it that often, not do most other healers I know. And if it were to randomly not work when I used it, I would just not use it at all (nor, again, would many healers who have posted in this thread, it seems). If it causes this much ire, just eliminate it, but do give healers something interesting (and useful) to replace it, to maintain at least some degree of unique capability to the role.

Heck, give us a "damage in waiting" which lets us make someone invulnerable, but then the damage is turned into a doom they have to do something to cleanse. (Maybe they have to do the damage they took to targets within X seconds for the Doom to go away; make it 150% so that if you take 80k damage converted into Postponed Fate or whatever, you must do 120k damage in return within 10s.) Then we can deal with them standing in a one-shot and maybe have them survive. I dunno. Something!

But all of those suggestions and comments keep getting shot down with how people would figure out how to use anything healers could conceivably be given in place of Rescue as a cheese method, and how a toggle would be better because then healers have the option to use Rescue. (Again: if it just randomly doesn't work, in general, many of us wouldn't use it.)

So while I don't personally think toggles that allow one player to dictate that another player's abilities should just Sometimes Not Work are a good idea in general, if a toggle is truly the simple solution that best fits the community's playstyle, then let's honestly look at where else we can use the mechanic once it's in place. I'm genuinely not being facetious there; if it's the path we think is best to go down, then it's a mechanic worth examining where else it can improve the game experience.

Because yes... one tank having the ability to disable other tanks' Provoke to avoid people turning Anghra Mainyu into a centrifuge would, on the whole, probably end up improving my life as a healer quite a bit when World of Darkness pops in alliance roulette.

[Doozer]

Also, FFXIV gameplay is extremely position oriented. Repositioning someone may be the most intrusive thing you could do to them.

Then position yourself in a place where someone doesn't think they need to Rescue you out of it. Otherwise, game mechanics shouldn't be based entirely around preventing trolling, that's what reporting is for.