!! Fix Healer Rescue

[Goji1639]

Don't doubletalk me. If everyone turns it off, then it turns off another player's ability. It equally impinges on their Job.

Botched Rescues are incredibly rare, but sometimes happen. So do botched Raises. Ever had a healer Raise you into a death puddle? It happens but we're not removing Raise either.

If everyone turns it off then the ability is clearly viewed as a problem by the community as a whole. So, what do you think they should do with an ability that none of their paying customers like?

[Packetdancer]

Yeah. I mean, literally the only times I use Rescue are:

1. Pull sprouts to shelter in Behemoth, Amon, or Xande when it's clear they aren't going to move.
2. Pull sprouts across the glowy floor to cleanse Doom in WoD if they're about to die.
3. Pull sprouts with the stack marker back to the group in the Mhach raids.
4. Pull people back when they're bring knocked off the edge of the first boss in Dun Scaith.
5. Pre-arranged Susano Uptime Cheese.
6. Pull non-sprouts into furniture in Grand Cosmos when it's clear they're about to die to Mortal Flame - "the piano of gentle correction".
7. "LB3! ...crap, I'm in animation lock and going to die." "No you won't!" *movie zipline noise*

I use it maybe twice a month on a busy month, and more often once every two months or so. Maybe others use it more? And I tend to agree that Rescue is used for cheese—witness two entries on my list—and so will anything that replaces it. Truthfully, probably half of why I am fond of Rescue is that it's not just useful but *unique to healers*, which the role is light on. (Esuna? Bard can cleanse a debuff. Rez? SMN and RDM have that. Healing or shields? PLD, DRK, RDM...)

As long as I have *some* way to try to keep people up who are about to be one-shotted, I mostly don't care if we have Rescue or not.

But overall, my personal feeling is that letting other people disable abilities on my bar is just as disruptive as people feel being moved by Rescue is... only worse in some ways because Rescue misuse, where it happens, probably doesn't happen every run, whereas knowing that whether or not my abilities on my bar are enabled or not (and that this I have no idea if the ability in question will work at any given moment I tried to use it) would be a constant 100% of the time thing.

So I admit my preference would be to replace it rather than allow someone else to dictate whether or not an ability on my bar will function.

If it's how others want to go in proposing how things could be improved, though—by, in effect, allowing the party members to individually set restrictions on what can and can't be done in a given battle, so that the end result is something like the compromise between everyone's preferences/comfort zones—then despite my personal dislike I'm willing to go down that path and debate where the mechanic could be useful more generally.

[Goji1639]

So I admit my preference would be to replace it rather than allow someone else to dictate whether or not an ability on my bar will function.

If it's how others want to go in proposing how things could be improved, though—by, in effect, allowing the party members to individually set restrictions on what can and can't be done in a given battle, so that the end result is something like the compromise between everyone's preferences/comfort zones—then despite my personal dislike I'm willing to go down that path and debate where the mechanic could be useful more generally.

Rescue is a unique situation; no other abilities in this game are nearly as singularly intrusive. I don't think the solution to this problem would work well as a blanket solution to every problem, but if FFXIV does adopt this then it would warrant discussion.

World of Warcraft didn't expand this toggle solution to any other abilities, thereby acknowledging that Rescue poses a unique problem that requires a unique solution.

Regardless, I think we've found some common ground on changing the ability entirely. I could support that.

Except it wouldn't.

Imagine you had a utility skill on your job. It can be really useful in some situations, but it takes a while to go off and the timing is wonky. As a result, to ensure it works you pretty much need to stop DPSing for a GCD or two. And when you do use it, you need to react fast because of that timing issue.

Just add an indicator to the nameplate/healthbar of everyone and you'll know just by looking at the person who's out of position that Rescue isn't an option. This issue would be easy to work around.

It's debatable as to whether it's intrusive in the first place, since unlike World of Warcraft's version of the ability Rescue has limitations in place to prevent it being abused freely.

You can choose to only party with healers that you trust if you're so concerned about the ability being misused even with the limitations in mind. I'd also question you on one point - how often, in all honesty, do you see the ability being misused? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I do roulettes on a near daily basis and I have not seen the ability be misused.

I have, however, seen numerous uses of the ability preventing a death or even stopping an entire party from wiping. I've seen it used beneficially in both PvP and PvE content.

I've only seen it used to troll a few times. Healers costing me a couple swings in Delirium on my DRK is a more frequent thing, probably because I almost never adjust for mechanics during Delirium; very few mechanics in roulettes are actually a threat to a DRK with TBN. I've never actually seen Rescue used to my benefit.

How often isn't the issue, though. Fact is that it's intrusive and allowing people to opt out would be a simple thing.

[Packetdancer]

It's tricky enough for AST in a party with another AST to glance at the party list to avoid overwriting other-AST's cards in the heat of battle, especially once you have a lot of buffs and debuffs on that bar. And with Rescue's wonky timing, given any scenario where you genuinely need Rescue, things are probably at a point where taking the time to find that "Don't Rescue Me" debuff amongst everything else probably means you've now taken too long for Rescue to work anyway.

[Theodric]

It's tricky enough for AST in a party with another AST to glance at the party list to avoid overwriting other-AST's cards in the heat of battle, especially once you have a lot of buffs and debuffs on that bar. And with Rescue's wonky timing, given any scenario where you genuinely need Rescue, things are probably at a point where taking the time to find that "Don't Rescue Me" debuff amongst everything else probably means you've now taken too long for Rescue to work anyway.

If they removed or adjusted Rescue, I'd actually be less likely to bother healing. I feel more confident healing people when I know I have such an ability to lean on in an emergency.

It's also not the only ability that affects other players. There's the likes or provoke and shirk, which adjust enmity. Technically speaking, players could abuse such abilities as well - to steal or misdirect aggro during the heat of battle. Yet that doesn't mean they should be removed from the game, or disabled with a toggle since they're integral to surviving certain mechanics such as tank swaps.

[Doozer]

I never said they did. People are suggesting I instruct the Healer on what situations he should/shouldn't use Rescue beforehand, which is something I'd have to do every roulette and something that could easily start a fight.

Well, you could just get over it. That option is free and doesn't cost anyone anything. But you don't strike me as the type to just let go of small things.

If they removed or adjusted Rescue, I'd actually be less likely to bother healing. I feel more confident healing people when I know I have such an ability to lean on in an emergency.

For once we agree on something. One thing I love about healing is making snap decisions to save someone. I've been thanked a number of times for it, so I'd really rather not have it be removed.

[White_Wolf_X]

It's tricky enough for AST in a party with another AST to glance at the party list to avoid overwriting other-AST's cards in the heat of battle, especially once you have a lot of buffs and debuffs on that bar. And with Rescue's wonky timing, given any scenario where you genuinely need Rescue, things are probably at a point where taking the time to find that "Don't Rescue Me" debuff amongst everything else probably means you've now taken too long for Rescue to work anyway.

This so much, if healer have to check the person first to see if they got the disable rescue debuff/buff whatever ( in the middle of combat ) it would already be to late to use it.

[Theodric]

It's debatable as to whether it's intrusive in the first place, since unlike World of Warcraft's version of the ability Rescue has limitations in place to prevent it being abused freely.

You can choose to only party with healers that you trust if you're so concerned about the ability being misused even with the limitations in mind. I'd also question you on one point - how often, in all honesty, do you see the ability being misused? I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I do roulettes on a near daily basis and I have not seen the ability be misused.

I have, however, seen numerous uses of the ability preventing a death or even stopping an entire party from wiping. I've seen it used beneficially in both PvP and PvE content.

[Theodric]

Reviving people is very important in some cases, especially if there's tether and stack mechanics in play.

[Goji1639]

Reviving people is very important in some cases, especially if there's tether and stack mechanics in play.

Literally never seen a party wipe from being 1 DPS down. I think a lot of you use phrases like "very important" more to try to sell a point than to actually be accurate.

The problem with a toggle is the people that have needed to be rescued the most would likely be the ones to toggle it off.

Rather than being upset someone rescued you, you likely want to ask what you were doing caused someone to rescue you.

Why would I need to ask that; the answer is usually something obvious like I was standing on an AoE marker. I like standing on AoE markers; they do so little damage even my DPS classes can self heal them and it allows me to maximize uptime.