Treading Dangerous Ground

[Biggs]

I agree that they should have had poll questions about the server merge options in the first place instead of reacting to the explosion on the forums.

But I think that for those times they fail to make a poll for an important decision like this, it's still good to notice if the forum reacts hugely and reconsider things based on that.

My believe is that in the end it's not the players who decide what happens but the Director. These forums aren't here to force descissions upon the director. They provide feedback, different views to look at a certain problem. (Like in the tv-serie House. House knows everything but needs his team to obtain more view points to find more relations between various things.) It's not about what the majority thinks or what the minorities think, it's about collecting more different point of views / arguements / data for the Director to make a more valid descission.

I can agree with what your both saying. A leaders job is to make desicions and move forward. Often times, those decisions aren't going to please everyone. If your not going to just make a decision and stick by it (which , in this particular case I wish he had done if he didnt want to poll), and instead take it to the players and cater to what they want, shouldn't you then make sure that ALL the players are given the chance to respond with what they like instead of just a small percentage that take the time to use these forums? From what I have read, the dev team was still debating with each other right up too the point when he posted option 4 as the means by which they would do this. That, too me anyway, should indicate that its time to lead, or its time to take it to ALL the players and see what they want.

I understand that the purpose of these forums is to give everyone that chance, but the numbers from the first poll prove that many people feel more comfortable using a poll to communicate what they want then they do getting on the official forums and dealing with others. (And seeing how people treat each other on here sometimes, I can understand why). To me it just seems like a slippery slope if they want to make large desicions like this based on the feedback of a small portion of the community as a whole.

[Biggs]

However, I do think it's getting noisier... It's like when the kids know they can get a candy when they do A (just easier so not bias, but in my mind is "fake crying"... you can think other way as "get a good score in school"!)... so now they want a car, they do A. They want a robot, they do A... It's more about personal interest not the general public interest.
HOWEVER, just like what you usually heard, "ask when you have a question" because lots people will have same question too! It's another example of small voice "maybe" can represent the bigger general body...

Another thing we have emotion link with each other, so when negative emotion comes up, the whole society might looks pissed off. It's not they just care about negative voice...it's just this place is full with negative since SE had a bad start... now many consumers always think they are victims and stand in the defense mode. Well, crying baby always get the candy. so remember to VOTE or thread! ^^

EXACTLY. Polling takes the emotion of it all COMPLETELY out of the equation. It also gives those that don't have the patience to put up with some of the things that go on in these forums the chance to express their opinions and desires free of player response. Its totally anonymous. I think the forums are a place they can go to find out WHy people want what they want, but when it comes to just finding out what they want, a poll (to me anyway) is the way to go everytime.

[KumaAkuma]

Polling takes the emotion of it all COMPLETELY out of the equation.

I think it's the exact opposite. Polls are about what people want, which is subjective (emotion). The underlying reasons (facts) as to why the people want what they want remains completely hidden in these polls.

[Biggs]

I think it's the exact opposite. Polls are about what people want, which is subjective (emotion). The underlying reasons (facts) as to why the people want what they want remains completely hidden in these polls.

I should have clarrified. Polling takes the lengthy responses that ussually contain emotions out of the equation while getting at the root of WHAT players want. I am not arguing that what people want is subjective, it is. My point, and the point of the OP, is that I dont want just the official forum community being the basis for large scale desicions that effect everyone. If you want 5% percent (again, made up number) determining what the rest of us will get, then by all means, thats what you want. To each his own man, I just don't think thats for me. This incident with the merger and his reaction to it though is what I used as an example to highlight my concern for what could happen in the future.

If a dev was to get on here and ask if people would like a Dragon mount (for example), and everyone was then to post a response explaining why they would or would not like one, you would probably get a very vast ranging list of responses on both sides. Take the same question and put it in a poll that just says WOUlD YOU LIKE A DRAGON MOUNT? CHECK YES OR CHECK NO. The results would be the same without them having to read 600 different reasons for WHY we want or dont want one. Its faster, more efficient, and typically more people respond to a poll instead of post a response, so they get a much better idea of what the community wants as whole.

[darkstarpoet1]

I should have clarrified. Polling takes the lengthy responses that ussually contain emotions out of the equation while getting at the root of WHAT players want. I am not arguing that what people want is subjective, it is. My point, and the point of the OP, is that I dont want just the official forum community being the basis for large scale desicions that effect everyone. If you want 5% percent (again, made up number) determining what the rest of us will get, then by all means, thats what you want. To each his own man, I just don't think thats for me. This incident with the merger and his reaction to it though is what I used as an example to highlight my concern for what could happen in the future.

If a dev was to get on here and ask if people would like a Dragon mount (for example), and everyone was then to post a response explaining why they would or would not like one, you would probably get a very vast ranging list of responses on both sides. Take the same question and put it in a poll that just says WOUlD YOU LIKE A DRAGON MOUNT? CHECK YES OR CHECK NO. The results would be the same without them having to read 600 different reasons for WHY we want or dont want one. Its faster, more efficient, and typically more people respond to a poll instead of post a response, so they get a much better idea of what the community wants as whole.

here's another part about polls that are an issue. if you took a poll asking which version of a merge was wanted or even if a merge was wanted then chances are very good that the large servers would have just voted against a merge. looking at these forums leading up til they said they were considering merging servers it was likely 3-1 people opposed to having a merge in the first place.

people on large servers didn't WANT a merge.
people on small servers did NEED a merge.

an overall players poll may have decided the majority didn't want a merge even though some actually do need them to happen. a poll is only as good as the questions are worded. the original poll asked very vague questions and many people, including myself, voted for one thing and have regretted them since.

[Elexia]

I agree there should have been a poll on the matter.

When the development team comes to a point where this happens:



that should be a sign that it's time to ask the players what to do. At least then it won't look like a mistake on the developers' part, they just did what the players wanted.

They always ask the players, why do you think XIV is in such a flip-flop state currently? The players.

people on large servers didn't WANT a merge.
people on small servers did NEED a merge

Large server numbers taper off, newly merged servers doing just fine, then what? You still get the imbalance that people feared with option 4. because they're not going to actively merge servers everytime numbers drop each week or month.

This is why option 4 was pretty good, even if the last 3 servers ended up with slightly less people, it would be better distributed and in the future you wouldn't run the risk of untouched servers becoming ghost towns like what would/will happen by doing so.

[darkstarpoet1]

Large server numbers taper off, newly merged servers doing just fine, then what? You still get the imbalance that people feared with option 4. because they're not going to actively merge servers everytime numbers drop each week or month.

This is why option 4 was pretty good, even if the last 3 servers ended up with slightly less people, it would be better distributed and in the future you wouldn't run the risk of untouched servers becoming ghost towns like what would/will happen by doing so.

that had absolutely nothing to do with what my post was about. option 4 was horrid and that's why every language complained about it. this is one of the few issues that the jp and english players both railed against hard.

my post was pointing out an issue with doing a player poll. if a poll question is not worded correctly then the results can represent the wants of some and go against the needs of others.

here's an example of it:

which version of merge would you like to see?
1. straight a+b=c
2. a+b=c with optional transfer.
3. make 10 servers and everyone repicks their servers.
4. no merge is needed at this point.

using that set of answers to that question the people on the large servers could see no need in merge so they would vote against it all together and pick option 4. the people on the small servers actually need a merge, but there is no way they could vote for one without a majority in the large servers voting the same way.

in other words if those poll questions aren't worded correctly to address a need it can wind up going towards a want for some while ignoring the needs of others.

[MeowyWowie]

They always ask the players, why do you think XIV is in such a flip-flop state currently? The players.

No, that's as far from the truth as you can get. FFXIV is in such a state because they completely ignored players' feedback during alpha and beta testing. The biggest thing that they should have listened to was everyone telling them it's not ready for release when it clearly wasn't.

[Elexia]

No, that's as far from the truth as you can get. FFXIV is in such a state because they completely ignored players' feedback during alpha and beta testing. The biggest thing that they should have listened to was everyone telling them it's not ready for release when it clearly wasn't.

So when they polled the players and everyone agreed on an overhaul..they didn't listen?

When people wanted the game to be "more Final Fantasy" they didn't listen?

When people clamored for class definition they didn't listen?

When people wanted an enchantment type system they didn't listen?

When people complained about surplus, they didn't listen?

When people complained about the random nature of SP and fixed it they didn't listen?

When people complained most skills were useless they seriously didn't reform them?


You're right, them listening to players is far from the truth. I mean, every change they did had absolutely zero to do with the playerbase. I think you're confusing them not listening to "GIVE ME ARMOR WITH +9001 STR, DEX, VIT AND ACCURACY AND LET ME SOLO EVEN END-GAME CONTENT" stupid requests as not listening to players.

By the way, they stated the game wasn't ready for release but do you think it was Tanaka's call to push it out unfinished? If you remember how they had literally nothing for the 2010 year beyond FFXI it got pushed out to try to pad things, which means it was if anything Wada's decision, not the people working on it.

[darkstarpoet1]

No, that's as far from the truth as you can get. FFXIV is in such a state because they completely ignored players' feedback during alpha and beta testing. The biggest thing that they should have listened to was everyone telling them it's not ready for release when it clearly wasn't.

this 10000000x.

i know, meowy, you may have a stroke that i actually agree with you, but what you say is completely right.

So when they polled the players and everyone agreed on an overhaul..they didn't listen?

actually according to the players poll the majority stated content, not an overhaul, as the main thing they wanted. on what the majority voted for? no, they did not listen.