Treading Dangerous Ground

[Deli]

hmm... I don't think small amount is an issue tho...
many of the poll you saw on TV, such as presidential election prediction, these are using small amount to predict the big amount. They randomly select people and call them to see which option they choose. Since it's completely random, the actual test result will show a trend that is closer to real outcome.
However, the key is "it has to be completely random"

In forum, people build up emotion with each other. you will see complain threads come up first, then the sarcasm threads about the same topic. people are influence each other. This might be the better argument poll is not that reliable.

However, it still reflects the real player body's point of view. It's still somehow random people show up and leave a post. In the end, they just want to see the trend... not exactly 51% hate it or 30% want it.

[let me complain some other little things... ^^:] same thing about the damage test... test body isn't an issue as the same reason... I never want to know the exact formula. I just want to know the general trend, which one is better. At least I did something, not just sit there and use my mouth to figure out, or predict something like a psychic. 30+ damage average > I feel/ I think/ I see.

[Biggs]

hmm... I don't think small amount is an issue tho...
many of the poll you saw on TV, such as presidential election prediction, these are using small amount to predict the big amount. They randomly select people and call them to see which option they choose. Since it's completely random, the actual test result will show a trend that is closer to real outcome.
However, the key is "it has to be completely random"

In forum, people build up emotion with each other. you will see complain threads come up first, then the sarcasm threads about the same topic. people are influence each other. This might be the better argument poll is not that reliable.

However, it still reflects the real player body's point of view. It's still somehow random people show up and leave a post. In the end, they just want to see the trend... not exactly 51% hate it or 30% want it.

[let me complain some other little things... ^^:] same thing about the damage test... test body isn't an issue as the same reason... I never want to know the exact formula. I just want to know the general trend, which one is better. At least I did something, not just sit there and use my mouth or predict something like a psychic. 30+ damage average > I feel/ I think/ I see.

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample. That would be like going a Republican convention to take a sample poll about how Americans feel about President Obama.

[KumaAkuma]

The problem with the huge scale poll however is that you might see how everyone feels, but you don't see the reasons behind them. And if it was made into an open questionaire, SE would not have the resources to analyze data of such a size. On top of that the poll wouldn't reach all people either. Everyone who's not paying right now will probably not have the option to participate in the poll. (Offtopic: That group is affected the most by the current change btw. They won't be scattered over random worlds anymore per default)

[Biggs]

The problem with the huge scale poll however is that you might see how everyone feels, but you don't see the reasons behind them. And if it was made into an open questionaire, SE would not have the resources to analyze data of such a size. On top of that the poll wouldn't reach all people either. Everyone who's not paying right now will probably not have the option to participate in the poll. (Offtopic: That group is affected the most by the current change btw. They won't be scattered over random worlds anymore per default)

Right, but would you rather them change things in the game that 70% of the people that play it want, or change it based on what 5% want? As for the reasons behind them, I am unsure how to answer that. Are you suggesting that people with "good" reasons (totally subjective there btw) should have more of a say than people with "bad" reasons. The whole reason I like polls is BECAUSE they are objective. I certainly think they should use these forums to see those reasons, but (for me anyway) large scale desicions that SE wishes to make based on what the players want, should remain as objective as possible. Don't get me wrong, I understand that asking questions about what people like has them answer in a way that uses their opinion (which is subjective), but I think that the reasons behind those choices when it comes to shifting development are moot.

Also, it was my understanding that people that took the first poll only needed to be a member of the official SE site, not neccesarily a current player of the game. I could be wrong though. Also, people that didnt wish to play but may want to come back left a server that still contained a community they may have liked along with freinds that still play. Their vote should still matter (again, my opinion) considering this particular issue would potentially have them coming back to a server where they know noone at all.

[Vaen]

I think that if so much of the forum in all the languages reacts in such an unusually large way (which Yoshi-P implied) then it's a good indicator that something's wrong.

If so many people on the forums are pointing out the legitimate criticisms with the proposed merge plan, and that helps these concerns get across to Yoshi-P, then it doesn't matter if the voices on the forums are not 100% representative of all ff14 players.

It's not about popularity or getting an accurate read of the playerbase's feelings, it's about considering the real pros and cons of each server merge option.

[Biggs]

I think that if so much of the forum in all the languages reacts in such an unusually large way (which Yoshi-P implied) then it's a good indicator that something's wrong.

If so many people on the forums are pointing out the legitimate criticisms with the proposed merge plan, and that helps these concerns get across to Yoshi-P, then it doesn't matter if the voices on the forums are not 100% representative of all ff14 players.

It's not about popularity or getting an accurate read of the playerbase's feelings, it's about considering the real pros and cons of each server merge option.

That sort of begs the question then why they even bothered taking a poll the first time, then changing the game BASED on that poll, when they could have just gotten feedback from a few people internationally, assumed thats what everyone wanted, and moved forward. The merger, and any other major changes they make to the game represent something that effects EVERYONE that plays and wants to play, not just those that take the time to make a post about it. I am not suggesting they make a poll about every little decision, but they seem to think its important to have polls over large ones, or they wouldn't be preparing for another. In this particular instance I am just fairly suprised they didnt include this issue as part of that poll before moving forward.

[Deli]

Here is the only problem I see with that. It has been said by Yoshi P. himself that Westerners are notorious for only responding when something doesnt make them happy, yet when they are pleased they tend to only check the thumbs up or not respond at all. So if the people that responded about this particular issue on the North American forums are your sample, its a very biased sample. That would be like going a Republican convention to take a sample poll about how Americans feel about President Obama.

hmm... I think the better example is japanese side has huge flame about Ul'dah get 2 good crafters' gears and no other companies get, the same issue is better in US forum. It got fixed quickly. So, their sample collection is easier in japanese site than US. voice heard maybe more toward Japanese too.

I think it's not they response to negative more than positive. Issue like Goobbue mount I believe they saw it. Lots people hates it and lots people love it. This is the thing won't got pull away soon. When there is negative, there will be supportive voice come up. that shows how forum still not black and white bias.

However, I do think it's getting noisier... It's like when the kids know they can get a candy when they do A (just easier so not bias, but in my mind is "fake crying"... you can think other way as "get a good score in school"!)... so now they want a car, they do A. They want a robot, they do A... It's more about personal interest not the general public interest.
HOWEVER, just like what you usually heard, "ask when you have a question" because lots people will have same question too! It's another example of small voice "maybe" can represent the bigger general body...

Another thing we have emotion link with each other, so when negative emotion comes up, the whole society might looks pissed off. It's not they just care about negative voice...it's just this place is full with negative since SE had a bad start... now many consumers always think they are victims and stand in the defense mode. Well, crying baby always get the candy. so remember to VOTE or thread! ^^

[KumaAkuma]

Right, but would you rather them change things in the game that 70% of the people that play it want, or change it based on what 5% want? As for the reasons behind them, I am unsure how to even answer that. Are you suggesting that people with "good" reasons (totally subjective there btw) should have more of a say than people with "bad" reasons. The whole reason I like polls is BECAUSE they are objective. I certainly think they should use these forums to see those reasons, but (for me anyway) large scale desicions that SE wishes to make based on what the players want, should remain as objective as possible. Don't get me wrong, I understand that asking questions about what people like has them answer in a way that uses their opinion (which is subjective), but I think that the reasons behind those choices when it comes to shifting development are moot.

Also, it was my understanding that people that took the first poll only needed to be a member of the official SE site, not neccesarily a current player of the game. I could be wrong though. Also, people that didnt wish to play but may want to come back left a server that still contained a community they may have liked along with freinds that still play. Their vote should still matter (again, my opinion) considering this particular issue would potentially have them coming back to a server where they know noone at all.

My believe is that in the end it's not the players who decide what happens but the Director. These forums aren't here to force descissions upon the director. They provide feedback, different views to look at a certain problem. (Like in the tv-serie House. House knows everything but needs his team to obtain more view points to find more relations between various things.) It's not about what the majority thinks or what the minorities think, it's about collecting more different point of views / arguements / data for the Director to make a more valid descission.

[Vaen]

That sort of begs the question then why they even bothered taking a poll the first time, then changing the game BASED on that poll, when they could have just gotten feedback from a few people internationally, assumed thats what everyone wanted, and moved forward. The merger, and any other major changes they make to the game represent something that effects EVERYONE that plays and wants to play, not just those that take the time to make a post about it. I am not suggesting they make a poll about every little decision, but they seem to think its important to have polls over large ones, or they wouldn't be preparing for another. In this particular instance I am just fairly suprised they didnt include this issue as part of that poll before moving forward.

I agree that they should have had poll questions about the server merge options in the first place instead of reacting to the explosion on the forums.

But I think that for those times they fail to make a poll for an important decision like this, it's still good to notice if the forum reacts hugely and reconsider things based on that.

[Deli]

/nod agree on world merging issue should be polled in the beginning of this year.
but that's also why they announced super early. just to see the community's response. Sort of help us narrow down the options. But, it's really stupid. a poll in website is much easier...
now they probably will change it to another option such as you are free to choose, but when you selecting world your world choice will be at an initial pre-selected world? I donnooooooo

If not, just use rest of few weeks to decide which server to choose...