Treading Dangerous Ground

[MeowyWowie]

I'm not saying they're not listening now, because they are. I'm saying if they listened when they should have, before the game was released, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.

[ChiefCurrahee]

Listening to players on how to manage the community vs how to manage developing the game are two completely different subjects.

The outcry was over the fracture that would happen to established communities. The outcry wasn't about how each and every player felt the merge should be handled. At a glance as the shear amount of topics and the zero to sixty in under 4 seconds acceleration of these forums, I can see how one would get the assumption that it was purely player opinions of merges.

If you take a deeper look nearly all the of context of posts were: "Don't break our communities!"

When Yoshi revealed that they had 4 ideas on how to go forward with the merges, people backed the option that allowed larger than singular LS communities to stick together, with the option for individuals to select to move as they see fit.

It is the correct move for Yoshi to listen to the player community on how to keep the community together.

Now if it came to a gameplay decision like say Auto Attack. That was a heated debate back in the day. The devs felt it was the correct way to move this game forward, a lot of players on the forums disagreed. If Yoshi then changed his stance due to a vocal minority that would have been the incorrect move.

I agree with your statement that large game play decisions should be made as player polls to get a larger consensus. Then take that info and work it into the development of game content and systems.

[Enyyx]

The players that care enough will come here to be heard.

It's the same with voters in government elections. Voter turnout may be 20%, but guess who gets to make the decision? The 20% that cared enough to vote.

[Kaizlu]

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.

And before anyone says "everyone hated option 4", here's a little thing:

Why does Yoshida hate linkshells/communities? [25 likes to OP]

Thanks for ruining the only experience that keeps me playing. [37 likes to OP]

Petition to reveal Server names before transferring! [46 likes to OP]

Thread: A history in server merging - Why SE is creating an overcomplicated mess. [42 likes to OP]

So, in 4 different threads that basically are talking about the same thing, we get no more than 50 likes in the OP. Last time I checked on my server alone (Wutai), I can find at least 200-300 people at any given time.

Now, I know that the number of likes does not give a real indicator of how many people agree with the thread/idea, but it still shows that only a handful of people decided it was worth it's time to do a simple click on the OP.

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

[KumaAkuma]

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.

And before anyone says "everyone hated option 4", here's a little thing:

Why does Yoshida hate linkshells/communities? [25 likes to OP]

Thanks for ruining the only experience that keeps me playing. [37 likes to OP]

Petition to reveal Server names before transferring! [46 likes to OP]

Thread: A history in server merging - Why SE is creating an overcomplicated mess. [42 likes to OP]

So, in 4 different threads that basically are talking about the same thing, we get no more than 50 likes in the OP. Last time I checked on my server alone (Wutai), I can find at least 200-300 people at any given time.

Now, I know that the number of likes does not give a real indicator of how many people agree with the thread/idea, but it still shows that only a handful of people decided it was worth it's time to do a simple click on the OP.

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

The only thing those numbers proof is that some posters out there liked that Op's post. You can't use those numbers to proof opposite statements. And you can't even be talking about a vocal minority because you have no data to support this.

[Impulse]

Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

Pretty much this. Player input is always needed at some points, but when you shape an entire development process around the fans, well...

[Elexia]

Pretty much this. Player input is always needed at some points, but when you shape an entire development process around the fans, well...

Bad example actually, this was because Capcom pussied out thinking no one cares for Megaman (let alone Legends) and that even though he was outside of the company he wouldn't dedicate to it.

(He actually stated he was dedicated.)

Ontop of that, they think we want the same RE for the 70th time lol.

[Biggs]

yes, we may disagree alot, but we both handle it like adults and don't do the "don't like it jump off a bridge" when we do disagree. i don't even agree with my wife all the time, but that doesn't make me hate her when we disagree either.

i may have a different opinion than you on many matters, but i never take different views personal. i just thought it was funny we actually saw eye to eye for a change and wanted to point out that monumental occasion lol.

I just wanted to say thats its good to see people that are on here that disagree, yet still maintain a level of respect and civility with one another. Its such a rare thing on these servers. I have at times fired from the hip with responses based on my immediate reaction instead of stepping back and answering rationally, and every time I have always regretted it later. My thanks to you both for showing the rest how it can be done.

The players that care enough will come here to be heard.

It's the same with voters in government elections. Voter turnout may be 20%, but guess who gets to make the decision? The 20% that cared enough to vote.

My only point of contention with this line of reasoning is this: when you look at the number of people that voted in the first player poll, there were tens of thousands of voter turn outs. There is no way that you could get those numbers from forums even if you combined the official forums AND all the fan sites. This demonstrates that a poll is much more effective at gathering what the majority want. Have you seen how people treat each other on these forums? Is it any suprise that many people don't want anything to do with them? Up until I started following FFXIV, I NEVER blogged on ANY site about anything. I dont even have a facebook account. You have to understand that this form of communication isn't for everyone, and thats ok. A player poll takes much of that out of the equation entirely, which is why you see higher turn outs for polls than you ever will on forums. I agree that only those that participate get a say, but only in terms of official polls by SE. I am sorry, but watching how many people choose to behave on here, (and I admit even I am not always at my best) I dont want these forums being used as a means to determine what I get as a player.

I agree 100% with OP. Yes, the problem is not the fact they're considering the change, it's how and why. A server merge is a big deal in any MMO, and affects a lot of people. But it seems they're trying to please the "vocal minority" this time around.
Whatever SE does with the merges, I'll stay. But I am paying for a game developed by SE, not a community project.

I totally agree with this not being a community project. I would have rather seen One of two things happen. 1, Yoshi step up and be a leader that makes the tough desicions that may be unpopular with some (no matter which choice he went with) and move forward. Or 2, choose to gather info on what the players want and make a desicion from there, but in a way that has everyone participating, including those that dont like the forums. I certainly dont envy the position the man has put himself in now.

It partly doesn't even matter who is doing the speaking for the community as primarily we're just calling the development team out on their s#!%. Sorry, we're paying customers now. They have to start working a little more on customer service and they have now after the global backlash and we got what we wanted.

I have been saying for months that it seems like, at times, the devs seem more concerned with trying to please "potential" customers vs. trying to please the customers that are loyal and are now (and often always HAVE) been playing and now paying. The fact that we have ALL been asking for better linkshell tools since day 2 of release, but have been ignored demonstrates my point on this.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

You know, there is another thing about the merge that many are not even bringing up. The fact that option 4 was gone with so that it is easier on the development team and NOT the players. That is where the outrage lies.

It partly doesn't even matter who is doing the speaking for the community as primarily we're just calling the development team out on their s#!%. Sorry, we're paying customers now. They have to start working a little more on customer service and they have now after the global backlash and we got what we wanted.