healers need a serious overhaul

[Liam_Harper]

Add more bosses like Cúchulainn where there's a constant DoT on the party that's manageable with HoTs, but still chips away more than the HoTs can heal for. Add in mobs that strengthen the DoT's effect (not by a lot) that DPS need to get rid of ASAP, and you've pretty much increased the challenge of content without overdoing it.

It's probably not that simple. A higher frequency of damage would be a great start, the 30-60+ second intervals where we barely need to heal are far too lenient, but more damage intake would not be the magical fix.

-For a start, there's a massive difference between a group of average players near minimum ilv progging a fight and a team of skilled players in BiS, mapping cooldowns and mitigation and coordinating heals. Gear, heal mapping, coordination, mitigation all drastically reduce healing needed when combined together. But while fights shouldn't be braindead-easy, Enix would still have to make sure they are possible for average players who have the basics right. It's difficult to design fights that are possible to clear for normal players but still challenging for the skilled group in BiS.
-Secondly, group composition is very rigid. In a game like WoW, you have 20 players in Mythic and up to 30 in Normal/Heroic and they can be flexible with their healers, bringing more when learning a fight and cutting down when geared and knowing the mechanics. In ff14 we always have 2 healers and mechanics often even try to force this. Two is a difficult number to balance for, since one healer dying or incompetent is half your healers gone.
-Third the game plays slowly. 2.5 sec GCD's, animation delays, clipping, server ticks and so on make it hard to design random reactive fast-paced healing, or gameplay in general. Thus mechanics in FF14 are generally quite scripted and predictable.

Personally I feel the current design of healers is the right direction and they should simply embrace the Battle Medic concept instead of considering reworks that can't work or trying to make "pure healers". To create healers that heal-spam the entire game engine and encounter design needs a major rework and that's not realistic. There will always be downtime in ff14 encounters. The very nature and design of the fights and the benefits gear, mitigation and proper planning provide ensure this.
Dps is actually the best downtime filler by far. Buffs or debuffs work well too and have a place, but have set durations or CD's, while DPS is always useful to the team, flows well and can be used the entire fight at any free moment healing isn't needed.

Embracing battle medic as a design could involve increasing the frequency of incoming damage (we're primarily Healers after all), making the dps kit more engaging and rewarding and treating healer damage as actual flowing dps that works with the toolkit (not against it), like tanks, which means no more clipping, ghosting, immobility, unnecessarily high taxes, lack of weave windows and so on, so it feels smooth to play. Also Piety could at the least get the Tenacity treatment and increase damage too.

Just my opinion on the matter.

Yeah but let's be real here. Most people by far only look at the player's summary page which shows percentile of DPS with no details.

Source?

It's your static of course, but if I joined a static and found out I have to wait months before being allowed to get any loot I probably wouldn't stay with them. I know there's also the book drops everyone gets, but it takes a while to get any gear with those.

I feel statics should be about having a team mindset, rather than gaining loot for personal benefit. The only purpose Savage loot really serves is to reclear faster, prog faster and to parse higher. If your reason for quitting a static is "I want to be able to get a marginally higher parse a few weeks sooner to show off" then you aren't really fit for a static. It doesn't take months to reach your turn anyway, the whole group will be geared just as fast, if not faster, than if it was free-for-all".

[tdb]

I feel statics should be about having a team mindset, rather than gaining loot for personal benefit. The only purpose Savage loot really serves is to reclear faster, prog faster and to parse higher. If your reason for quitting a static is "I want to be able to get a marginally higher parse a few weeks sooner to show off" then you aren't really fit for a static. It doesn't take months to reach your turn anyway, the whole group will be geared just as fast, if not faster, than if it was free-for-all".

It's not about getting a higher parse, it's about being appreciated as a member of the team. It's fine if the DPS get the first pick each week. But if the DPS get all loot until they're fully geared, then the tanks, before healers are finally allowed to get something, that makes me feel like a third-rate citizen as a healer.

It's a bit hard to find information on how the loot drops work. Most clear videos cut off just before the chests are opened and guide videos usually don't show the ending at all. From the ones that did include loot it seems that 2-3 gear coffers are dropped per stage, and some also drop a Cryptlurker upgrade item and/or a special tomestone for the weapon. The total amount from all stages seems about enough for fully gearing one character, so depending on how the distribution of coffers matches gear slots, worst case is that a healer would need to wait six weeks from the start of the tier before getting any loot.

[Rilifane]

It's not about getting a higher parse, it's about being appreciated as a member of the team. It's fine if the DPS get the first pick each week. But if the DPS get all loot until they're fully geared, then the tanks, before healers are finally allowed to get something, that makes me feel like a third-rate citizen as a healer.

It's a bit hard to find information on how the loot drops work. Most clear videos cut off just before the chests are opened and guide videos usually don't show the ending at all. From the ones that did include loot it seems that 2-3 gear coffers are dropped per stage, and some also drop a Cryptlurker upgrade item and/or a special tomestone for the weapon. The total amount from all stages seems about enough for fully gearing one character, so depending on how the distribution of coffers matches gear slots, worst case is that a healer would need to wait six weeks from the start of the tier before getting any loot.

As scripted and low incoming damage in savage is, healers are still important.
The main difference is that they don't need gear to perform their role efficiently and well and gear upgrades have very little impact compared to a dps and to an extend, even tanks. As a healer in raids I feel gear is just wasted on me and will gladly hand it over to a dps or tank anytime and take whatever is left. If I have enough to get by and not be a one shot even through mitigation, that's fine.
Gear makes healing more comfy but with two healers being overkill in most savage fights, it's the last thing I need in our static. In a chaotic PF party it may feel nice but definitely not in a coordinated static.

And even after only a few kills we already had a couple of free for all items, meaning everyone who needs it already got it. And even if it's not BiS, it's an upgrade so there's always the option to take an upgrade that may not be perfect but is still an improvement.

nononono you're missing the point.... I have nothing against meter whoring itself.. I just dont want to be a part of it. thats why I play healers... Its fine to have meter whoring... for people who play DPS. The healers and tanks should be concerned with with keeping their "friends" alive... let the DPS worry about the "Web Site that shall not be names"

You're missing one important point here: although it's all about dps, only an efficient use of your own toolkit and coordination with your co heal allows you to really push dps. The dps you are or are not doing is just a result of your level of gameplay when it comes to your primary function: healing. Only a good healer can become a good green dps. Statics are more willing to take someone who is not yet doing a lot of dps but has the healing part of their class down, meaning they know the fight, the incoming damage and prepare instead of blindly reacting, they use their whole toolkit and keep their oGCD heals rolling, they don't miss important cd uses, line up raid buffs properly, neither overheal too much nor snipe their co heal etc.
Because they may still grow into a really good green dps or at least never crumble under pressure when things go south.

It sounds more like you don't want to be judged for performance but even in games with full-time healers it was all about performance for most endgame players.
Because a good full-time healer, that used their own toolkit efficiently and worked with their co healer(s) gave the static the option to drop a healer for another dps because more dps is always useful. Or it at least allowed healers to spec and play more offensively as a makeshift solution until they reached the threshold for dropping a healer.
It is still all about performance and dps.

Someone who has healbot gameplay level in FFXIV still wouldn't be welcome in many statics in those games because it's clear from the beginning that they will neither enable the static to drop a healer later nor will they be the one switching to dps.

[tdb]

As scripted and low incoming damage in savage is, healers are still important.
The main difference is that they don't need gear to perform their role efficiently and well and gear upgrades have very little impact compared to a dps and to an extend, even tanks. As a healer in raids I feel gear is just wasted on me and will gladly hand it over to a dps or tank anytime and take whatever is left. If I have enough to get by and not be a one shot even through mitigation, that's fine.
Gear makes healing more comfy but with two healers being overkill in most savage fights, it's the last thing I need in our static. In a chaotic PF party it may feel nice but definitely not in a coordinated static.

Sure, on a logical level it makes sense. But on an emotional level it still feels bad if everyone else gets shiny new stuff and I don't. Maybe it's more of a failure in game design that makes healers an afterthought rather than the group being jackasses, but that doesn't change the fact that it feels bad.

Not that you have to worry about getting me in your savage group any time soon, if ever. Recently my interest in the game as a whole has been on the level of "I guess I'll have to do an expert to not miss out on the tomestones" and none of my friends have played in weeks so I'll probably take a break after I get my cryptlurker weapon. Kinda wish the game had less daily/weekly things to grind so it would be easier to just leave.

[Rilifane]

Sure, on a logical level it makes sense. But on an emotional level it still feels bad if everyone else gets shiny new stuff and I don't. Maybe it's more of a failure in game design that makes healers an afterthought rather than the group being jackasses, but that doesn't change the fact that it feels bad.

Not that you have to worry about getting me in your savage group any time soon, if ever. Recently my interest in the game as a whole has been on the level of "I guess I'll have to do an expert to not miss out on the tomestones" and none of my friends have played in weeks so I'll probably take a break after I get my cryptlurker weapon. Kinda wish the game had less daily/weekly things to grind so it would be easier to just leave.

Of course it feels bad and you know what? I'd quit healing in a heartbeat if I could.
The only reason I'm staying on healer is because I don't want to slow down prog in a static I enjoy raiding with and where prog is going nicely for a very casual schedule and going in blind. But I'm well-aware of all the issues healers currently face and it annoys me that I'm basically just a slot that needs to be filled to bait mechanics. It's a gigantic failure in game design and it's no wonder so many healers quit during ShB, both for casual and endgame content.
Getting gear wouldn't make it feel better, because I know how unneccessary and wasted it is and it would be nothing more than a consolation prize. I prefer the whole raid progressing further and further over getting pity gear.

[ForteNightshade]

Sure, on a logical level it makes sense. But on an emotional level it still feels bad if everyone else gets shiny new stuff and I don't. Maybe it's more of a failure in game design that makes healers an afterthought rather than the group being jackasses, but that doesn't change the fact that it feels bad.

Not that you have to worry about getting me in your savage group any time soon, if ever. Recently my interest in the game as a whole has been on the level of "I guess I'll have to do an expert to not miss out on the tomestones" and none of my friends have played in weeks so I'll probably take a break after I get my cryptlurker weapon. Kinda wish the game had less daily/weekly things to grind so it would be easier to just leave.

Not to sound cold, but emotions aren't going to help clear the fight more efficiently. It doesn't make sense prioritizing healers because they're the only job who have a solution if you're dying to unavoidable damage: trade damage casts for more healing. As a tank, my options are "where do you want <insert 90s CD> and/or Reprisal?" Otherwise, I'm a gimped DPS. For example sake, say you're close to enrage. Which helps the group more, funneling gear to the tank doing 11-12k or the healing doing 8-9k? Unless that gear allows them to jump several thousand DPS, you'll see better results for the group as a whole giving the tank gear. Of course, this all depends on your group mentality, how quickly you're aiming to clear and how aggressive your healers play. Furthermore, most groups I've seen or been apart of follow that priority only if the pieces are BiS. I've also seen some funnel DPS everything but let tanks and healers get upgrade items. So it isn't a hard set rule.

With all that said, yes it is a design flaw. You could solo heal most Savage fights if it weren't for one or two mechanics that specific target healers, thus making it far too impractical to drop one. Frankly, I hate that design approach because it feels arbitrary; a way to force two healers into content that doesn't require it.

nononono you're missing the point.... I have nothing against meter whoring itself.. I just dont want to be a part of it. thats why I play healers... Its fine to have meter whoring... for people who play DPS. The healers and tanks should be concerned with with keeping their "friends" alive... let the DPS worry about the "Web Site that shall not be names"

See my example above. Tanks have two abilities that mitigation AoEs, otherwise they're gimped DPS who occasionally take big hits. Sure, I may need to rotate something like Rampart or Nascent for autos but I'm far more focused on my damage simply because... well, what else am I supposed to focus on? Looking at my recent E11, I used a total of 25 mitigation CDs. I pressed Infuriate, and just Infuriate 18 times. One of my DPS buttons made up 72% of all my mitigation tools combined. This isn't taking into consideration I'm actually over mitigating with things like Raw because E11 has several downtime moments, and I don't have much else to do with it anyway. All in all, the reason damage is so prominent is because that's all the matters in the end. You can only heal or mitigate to a certain extent whereas damage is always valued. I don't need to sit at 200k the whole fight when all I'm taking are weak autos.