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Thread: Pronouns?

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  1. #1
    Player
    wereotter's Avatar
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    Ul'Dah
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    Antony Gabbiani
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    Faerie
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    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    I'd rather see resources allocated elsewhere.
    This would hardly be much in terms of resources. If its wanting to use a male character and use female pronouns or vice-versa, all the work has already been done as the dialogue from NPCs already exists. It would simply be allowing the player to change that flag between M or F. Adding in they/them would be more work, sure. But a simple swap should be pretty simple.
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player
    Iscah's Avatar
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    Aurelie Moonsong
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    Bismarck
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    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by wereotter View Post
    This would hardly be much in terms of resources. If its wanting to use a male character and use female pronouns or vice-versa, all the work has already been done as the dialogue from NPCs already exists. It would simply be allowing the player to change that flag between M or F. Adding in they/them would be more work, sure. But a simple swap should be pretty simple.
    There is no flag.

    Or rather, there is a flag and it is the same flag that sets your character's physical gender.

    And it's not as simple as just adding a separate flag because - aside of the fact that it's like adding stuff to the character creator, which never happens - there would still be complications with dialogue where it wouldn't make sense for someone to address you by a pronoun that doesn't match your physical character. Whether it's someone you've just met or someone who regards you a certain way because of your appearance - Thancred addresses you differently for one, and there are some noticeable differences in some of the scenes with Magnai and Daidukul that absolutely aren't going to change just because you think you're X when you're physically Y.
    (6)

  3. #3
    Player
    tdb's Avatar
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    Mikayla Rainstone
    World
    Lich
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    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by wereotter View Post
    This would hardly be much in terms of resources. If its wanting to use a male character and use female pronouns or vice-versa, all the work has already been done as the dialogue from NPCs already exists. It would simply be allowing the player to change that flag between M or F. Adding in they/them would be more work, sure. But a simple swap should be pretty simple.
    Separating the dialogue flag from the physical gender flag would probably be comparatively simple (but that does not necessarily make it simple in absolute terms, given the spaghetti code we know exists in some other parts of the game). But that flag affects more than just pronouns. If you just toggled that flag, various NPCs would be referring to your male-bodied character as "madam", "mistress", "lass", "girl", "woman" etc. This also applies to NPCs you've never met. How would they know your identified gender when you first talk to them? And like Iscah mentions it goes further than that. In some conversations it's not just single words that get changed but entire lines of dialogue are selected based on gender or other properties.

    Also, I wonder how exactly the aetheryte transport system works? I have the impression that your physical body actually ceases to exist for a moment and you traverse the lifestream in aetherial form. Are there some constraints which require the physical body to be reconstituted in the exact same way, or would your physical appearance after such a trip rather match your mental self-image? If it's the latter then it would be pretty strange for the WoL to have gender dissonance and require pronouns not matching their physical body.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    Shibi's Avatar
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    Lala Felon
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    Zurvan
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    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by tdb View Post
    Also, I wonder how exactly the aetheryte transport system works? I have the impression that your physical body actually ceases to exist for a moment and you traverse the lifestream in aetherial form. Are there some constraints which require the physical body to be reconstituted in the exact same way, or would your physical appearance after such a trip rather match your mental self-image?
    From everything I have found the devices convert your body to it's aetherial form, then back to it's previous physical form at the other end. As far as I've seen or read, one's perception of the self doesn't seem to have the ability to change the output, although clothes, echo, and "other things" can go missing if the lifestream is pushed to the extreme.

    However, the ability for someone to become a "primal", such as with Saint Shiva, suggests there would be other ways - like belief and prayer - with which one could transmute one's form into the form of the mind's eye.
    (1)

  5. #5
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    TheMightyMollusk's Avatar
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    Iyami Galvayra
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    Cactuar
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    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibi View Post
    However, the ability for someone to become a "primal", such as with Saint Shiva, suggests there would be other ways - like belief and prayer - with which one could transmute one's form into the form of the mind's eye.
    People who turn themselves into primals (Shiva, King Thordan, Tsukuyomi) overload their bodies with aether to transform. When that aether runs out, they change back. Shiva/Ysayle is the only one we see to actually survive post-transformation for more than a few minutes; however, Archbishop Thordan was an elderly man beforehand, and Yotsuyu was repeatedly shot right afterwards, so it's hard to call if it's a side-effect of the transformation, an effect of the primal transformation without the protection of the Echo and/or Blessing of Light, or just because of outside circumstances. Either way, unless they continually feed on aether, the change isn't permanent.
    (7)