Pronouns?

[reiichi]

From what I remember seeing of raw script, it's something along the lines of "if character is X, display text 'xxxxx'", and as I've been saying it's not just a matter of dropping in a single word in the right place bacuse there are so many different forms of gendered words or sentences.

It's not a matter of dropping in an external placeholder to determine whether Thancred tells you he's "quite taken with you" or simply "somewhat in awe". It's not placeholder text that determines how Magnai and Daidukul react to you. It's specific text at that place in the script which must check your character's gender and display the appropriate set of text boxes, but it's not just dropping pronouns alone into a generic script.

I can only imagine this "third party plug-in for custom preferences" had to do a lot of work to set up a custom system. It also presumably stores that information locally, and doesn't transmit it to other users, but if you want others to see your custom pronouns then that information has to be carried along with your character to every other person who sees you on their screen.

Using your first linked quest as an example,

Ahhh! I'm sorry, <If(PlayerParameter(4))>m-m-madam<Else/>s-s-sir</If>! No need to get angry, now! I-I have a problem, all right!? I was working it out with my mummy, and─uh, er, ah...

It's quite literally a template and placeholder system that generates the correct line based off your character's information. Just like any other templating system out there, you can have conditionals and branching which allows for a more "dynamic" text block display, which is what the game already does. Making an adjustment to check for some other character variable would be simple and like all other question dialog, handled completely client-side because the server doesn't care about pronouns. Naturally, the character's gender would still matter for things like equipping gear, but those checks do have to be validated by the server. There's no in-game dialog that checks the gender of your party members to my knowledge.

The plugin itself basically just overrides those local to the client variables and the text payload continues as normal. It'd be a lot more involved to inject something like "they/them" since that's not swapping a conditional if/else, but the general work needed to make these adjustments could be largely automated by the developers, I'd imagine as their scripting system likely allows them to already make those changes without having to hand-touch each one. (Just like how all the quests that mention race magically adjusted to Hrothgar and Viera).

[Tuska]

This again, it always turns into a crap show.

Like you said OP, it's a fantasy game and people have characters that's not the same sex as them so why go through all this hassle? No one online knows what gender you are nor do they truly care. I'm a girl and I get called a dude often because everyone online is a dude /s I haven't died yet, I don't have depression and I don't want to off myself. Why can't video games just be video games? Why do video games have to reflect you and real life?

People say they come here to escape and then bring all this nonsense to the game.

[TheMightyMollusk]

From a viewpoint of simple practicality, it's implausible at this point. Even assuming just a neutral they/them option, it would still require a ton of voicework to be redone, and another set of options adding to the work load going forward.

Not to mention, ARR English dialogue was done by another studio, so there would be a rather jarring disconnect there with one set of pronouns sounding entirely different (mind you, ARR in general could really use better voicework, but that's outside the topic at hand).

[BokoToloko]

If they don't bother putting my pronouns (Boss/Chief) they'd better not bother at all.

[Yandere-chan]

I'm confused by this. If this was a trans thing, why wouldn't you just play as the sex you want to transition to? The whole dilemma of transsexuals is they desperately want to be the other sex to feel right with who they are internally. Wanting to purposely be non-binary when you have the option of being either sex feels like something outside being trans. If it isn't a trans issue, then there isn't an element of gender dysphoria plaguing the individual. The idea that someone would face anything remotely similar to that for not being seen as neither male or female and addressed as such sounds suspicious at best.

With that said, I don't think Square has any plans to implement a system that replaces pronouns in the dialogue to custom pronouns. It would actually be very resource intensive due to needing to implement an entirely new dialogue function if not system and apply it to a MASSIVE amount of text already in the game. I think 99.99%+ of the playerbase would see little to no benefit in such a feature too. Square has SO many other things that players genuinely want that even other niche things would sooner be implemented than this. I would go forward with the expectation that this will never be a thing in this MMO.

The most you could do is ask friends to use specific pronouns, but I'm not sure if everyone will be willing to do that. I'd be cautious about asking strangers to do that for you. Many may take the request negatively and it may not be worth the potential social conflicts. Ultimately though, do whatever you think is best. You are your own person at the end of the day. ♥️

[Ammokkx]

I'm confused by this. If this was a trans thing, why wouldn't you just play as the sex you want to transition to? The whole dilemma of transsexuals is they desperately want to be the other sex to feel right with who they are internally. Wanting to purposely be non-binary when you have the option of being either sex feels like something outside being trans. If it isn't a trans issue, then there isn't an element of gender dysphoria plaguing the individual. The idea that someone would face anything remotely similar to that for not being seen as neither male or female and addressed as such sounds suspicious at best.

With that said, I don't think Square has any plans to implement a system that replaces pronouns in the dialogue to custom pronouns. It would actually be very resource intensive due to needing to implement an entirely new dialogue function if not system and apply it to a MASSIVE amount of text already in the game. I think 99.99%+ of the playerbase would see little to no benefit in such a feature too. Square has SO many other things that players genuinely want that even other niche things would sooner be implemented than this. I would go forward with the expectation that this will never be a thing in this MMO.

The most you could do is ask friends to use specific pronouns, but I'm not sure if everyone will be willing to do that. I'd be cautious about asking strangers to do that for you. Many may take the request negatively and it may not be worth the potential social conflicts. Ultimately though, do whatever you think is best. You are your own person at the end of the day. ♥️

this is a good post

[Iscah]

I'm confused by this. If this was a trans thing, why wouldn't you just play as the sex you want to transition to? The whole dilemma of transsexuals is they desperately want to be the other sex to feel right with who they are internally. Wanting to purposely be non-binary when you have the option of being either sex feels like something outside being trans. If it isn't a trans issue, then there isn't an element of gender dysphoria plaguing the individual. The idea that someone would face anything remotely similar to that for not being seen as neither male or female and addressed as such sounds suspicious at best.

If you're not part of a group or culture and you think they would have a particular opinion, but someone from that group expresses an opinion that doesn't match your understanding... why would you assume they are the one who is mistaken about what they want? It's not like they're going to ask for the thing if they don't actually want it. Where's the ulterior motive?

Re-evaluate your own understanding if it doesn't match.

It's not my culture either but I can see pretty easily that it's a big multidirectional spectrum with people identify as, or are attracted to, both or neither or the same or the other or any gender. People who are physically one specific gender and identify as the other specific gender are one part of that spectrum.

Clearly people fall in the middle and don't want to identify as one or the other, or why would they want to be addressed by a neutral pronoun?

[Jennah]

On the one hand, given the WoL's history as an Amaurotian and different incarnations as both genders over the millennia, 'they' makes quite a bit of sense from an RP perspective - RL politics aside. Especially in 6.0-onward, when we're fully aware of our history.

On the other, with Fantasias apparently being in-canon things and not really all that expensive - I'm not convinced that transgenderism would really be a thing in Eorzea. Or rather, that it *would* be a thing (and probably much more pervasive than on Earth to boot, since anyone 'questioning' could just buy two and switch back if unhappy) - but using a 'he'/'she' pronoun the opposite of the physical body would be really strange, since it's very simple to just change the physical body instead.

[TheMightyMollusk]

On the other, with Fantasias apparently being in-canon things and not really all that expensive -

Wait, when did this happen? Glamour prisms have been referenced, but I don't remember fantasias coming up.

[Gameovers]

Wait, when did this happen? Glamour prisms have been referenced, but I don't remember fantasias coming up.

I forget the quest but yeah fantas are canon ingame items NPCs can buy and use. SE makes damn near everything canon so it's no shock to me honestly.