FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

[Veis_Alveare]

People seldom expect you to pay hardcore, with maximum efficiency and zero errors, but they do expect you to at least care or try to get better, and that is very apparent if your damage output is equivalent to pressing a button every other GCD or several, or just auto attacks. People also expect you not to be abrasive in situations where they're just trying to give genuine and polite feedback.

So much this.

I would never fault a healer in expert roulettes pulling even half the damage I might be doing on their job because for the average player that very well could be what they're realistically capable of at that point. That's totally fine! Play more conservatively, hold unnecessary CDs, fail to realize the exact breakpoints for where your AoE and single target may overtake each other - the details are not my concern when it comes to super basic content like dungeons or 24m/normal raids.

If I can run a parse of someone through xivanalysis and at least understand what I think they intended to be doing I'm pretty happy overall. It might mean there are huge, gaping holes in their understanding and execution but that's okay. Those are things to patch up before entering EX/Savage but not necessarily before.

[Wyakin]

I’m gonna take the bait. If you cannot be bothered to learn a basic rotation and press a button every 2.5 seconds then you really need a reality check. A simple rotation isn’t hard to learn and even with limited time takes very little effort.

The average casual player shouldn’t be tossed in with the likes of you who do not care to learn how to play.

Not a soul expects savage/ultimate level play unless you’re in savage or ultimate. What everyone does expect is a minimum base level of competence and the respect for THEIR time. By that I mean, learn a basic rotation so dungeons don’t take 40 years. Don’t single pull when there’s perfectly useful cooldowns to support larger pulls etc etc etc

[MilitaryVet123]

https://sites.google.com/site/1314s1...1#introduction

What does the graph of that experiment have to do with FFXIV??

It shows that ageing will naturally cause your reaction time to become slower. For some super fast AoEs like Titan's Weight of the Land, people should be more patient with those that might get hit etc. Behind the screen they might be an older individual with a slower reaction time. And that's fine. What is not fine is telling them to "git gud".

[MilitaryVet123]

This is such a cumbersome post. But here goes the reply

I don't think there's any expectancy people create of you or anyone beyond simply putting in the adequate effort to sufficiently 'pull your weight' in the content you're completing, and this is relative to the encounter, not the other party members. There's always going to be a big disparity in player skill. But the game, even in casual encounters expects that you pull a certain amount of damage, and if you're pulling out half, or even a quarter relative to this then, well..

Nobody expects you, or anyone to complete a dungeon in under 12-13 minutes, nor do people expect you to play the game with perfection in extreme or savage, but people do seriously expect you to put in an effort. It is hard to argue if you're single targeting DPSn several mobs in a trash pack, or if you're doing something fundamentally wrong with your job play, be it never using dance steps, tank cooldowns, or what have you. If you're pulling 1/10 of what you otherwise would be playing at a very basic level then there's an issue- The only disappointing part with it is that shamefully it is seldom an issue of skill, reaction time, or anything else, but simply the lack of engagement, or desire to be engaged in the content someone is completing. If you're competent with a given encounter, or a given class then it's very easy to spot if someone is genuinely trying, or just simply not caring, and again, the latter is an issue if people just don't care at a basic level.

But I guess there's equally an issue of generally people giving advice, or complaining generally aren't around long enough to see improvement in genuine cases where someone may be mechanically screwing up.

People seldom expect you to pay hardcore, with maximum efficiency and zero errors, but they do expect you to at least care or try to get better, and that is very apparent if your damage output is equivalent to pressing a button every other GCD or several, or just auto attacks. People also expect you not to be abrasive in situations where they're just trying to give genuine and polite feedback.

Well, do you think "git gud" is genuine and polite feedback? I appreciate tips and helpful advice. But I do not appreciate being told to "git gud". In fact in this very thread three people have responded with "git gud" without offering any other advice.

[MilitaryVet123]

I’m gonna take the bait. If you cannot be bothered to learn a basic rotation and press a button every 2.5 seconds then you really need a reality check. A simple rotation isn’t hard to learn and even with limited time takes very little effort.

The average casual player shouldn’t be tossed in with the likes of you who do not care to learn how to play.

Not a soul expects savage/ultimate level play unless you’re in savage or ultimate. What everyone does expect is a minimum base level of competence and the respect for THEIR time. By that I mean, learn a basic rotation so dungeons don’t take 40 years. Don’t single pull when there’s perfectly useful cooldowns to support larger pulls etc etc etc

Do you realize that tanxiety is a thing? Maybe the person is playing tank for the first time ever and is pulling slowly as a result? Your comment is just layered with assumptions after assumptions about how players ought to play and how quickly they ought to learn. Not everyone can play as well as you or can learn as fast as you and that's OK. Just don't tell people to "git gud" as you have done previously.

[SnowX]

Additionally, no, not everyone has the privilege of spending time at improving at the game. Many of the comments I've received ask me to spend time improving.
2. Have you ever thought that you’re just lazy? You say things are hard. Yes then you practice the fight until you have managed the fight.

And the “big” “I’m old and don’t want to improve” talk starts again. As I told you before, improving has nothing to do with age. If you think your reactions are not as good as a few years ago, then learn the fight and try to remember the rhythm of the fight. Soon there will be an AOE, best I start running already, etc. You’re just lazy in my opinion. And if you only have a few hours to play during the week, then you also have enough hours from time to time to sign up for content with your friends and practice it. And just for you: I’m a casual player who gets involved with his friends from time to time with heavy content because we like it.

[Granyala]

In some of my recent threads expressing my worry that the loud minority of hardcore players may be signaling a skewed representation of the player base and cause biased expectations among the dev team, I received many thoughtful comments, but also many toxic and mean-spirited comments.

Do not worry, my dear. The DEVs know full well which segment of the playerbase brings in their daily bread.
I'd say 95% of the content is targeted at casual players. You really only get 4 savage bosses and maybe an ultimate every 6 months.
The rest is fairly inclusive.
Yes, even extreme trials are not what I'd call "hardcore content". They require some resemblance of skill and awareness but aren't nearly as punishing as savage raids (esp. with weaker equipment).

Most of FF-XIVs content seems to follow the mantra of "easy stuff with a lot of timesink" so almost everyone can do it.

Do you realize that tanxiety is a thing?

It is not exclusive to tanks though. Healers feel it as well. If either screws up, everyone can see the mistake and we usually get some flak for it.
Hell even DPS would feel it if their performance wasn't hidden by default in order to coddle special snowflakes.

Personally, whenever I perform badly, be it tank, healer or DPS I feel uneasy. As I should, after all, I am wasting other people's time.

You do not need uber skills in order to perform at an acceptable level.

Additionally, no, not everyone has the privilege of spending time at improving at the game. Many of the comments I've received ask me to spend time improving.

Then it is not the right game for you. MMOs are built on being time eaters, the time it takes to improve enough to down content is part of that equation. Though outside of ultimate/savage/extreme, the bar is set so low, it's difficult to imagine that any person that is seriously trying could not manage it.
I postulate that such cases are exceedingly rare. Hell I have seen people with major disabilities IRL pull of acceptable performances.

[znushu]

But Yoshi P designed this game to be suited to players who are not hardcore.

Instead, what we see on the forums is the loud minority that expects players to be playing this game several hours a day

ffxiv was never a product designed for the "hardcore" mmo demographic, it was designed for the jrpg + final fantasy demographic. I thought this was obvious from the get go but yeah, I agree with you even though the minority on the forums would disagree with you.

Then it is not the right game for you. MMOs are built on being time eaters, the time it takes to improve enough to down content is part of that equation. Though outside of ultimate/savage/extreme, the bar is set so low, it's difficult to imagine that any person that is seriously trying could not manage it. I postulate that such cases are exceedingly rare. Hell I have seen people with major disabilities IRL pull of acceptable performances.

key word there being "acceptable performance" which can very between player to player. For me, all I care about is my healer healing/rezzing people and that's it while other users though only care about whether the healer is doing some dps. But to me even if they aren't performing well enough for me I still will keep them in the party and just work with what i've got because the product is designed to allow users to work with margins of error in their runs. That's why you can even resurrect users while in a trial/raid or what not.

personally though I wouldn't mind at all if they just allowed all content to work with Trusts, since I prefer running through it that way. More lore, More relaxed runs, True instant q's times. But some would disagree with such a thing and hence goes back to what I said at first, which is something that's acceptable for you isn't something that might be acceptable for other users.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Seriosely... While I dont think we are as "hardcore" as Wow players for example. There are alot of us who are hardcore final fantasy fans, who do enjoy the challange..

Are you aware back in the good days of final fantasy if you screwed and cast fire for example on a target that was well you know not only immune but healed from it. (ah i miss that so much) and you could auto kill undead if you were smart with a well placed cure/life.

As for hardcore, who else here got all ff10 relic weapons for characters and remembers the living hell of Lulu's weapon?

but in short ff is kinda really hardcore/emotional roller coaster game series ... it wasn't until ffxiv that it got dumbed down for people like you...

[Granyala]

key word there being "acceptable performance" which can very between player to player.

Actually: no.
The margin is set by the game and to be frank: is only relevant in ex/savage/ultimate anyway.
Do you defeat the encounter before it enrages? The group had an acceptable performance.

I see no point in pestering a healer that only heals in a dungeon. Yeah sure it'll take a few minutes longer, big whoop. I'll take a "heal only" green over a "Imma try to play like a pro and let you die/wipe 5x". Same applies to a tank. Give me a tank that pulls single groups over one I cannot keep alive every day of the week.
Some people feel confident playing at a high level, some don't. I don't like people trying to pull of things they cannot do (gaining experience in new content aside, at some time a tank/healer HAS to check out where the limits are), if content gets cleared either way.

Seriosely... While I dont think we are as "hardcore" as Wow players for example.

From my experience parsing myself: FF-XIV raiders are every bit as hardcore as WoW raiders. The differences are a bit smaller in number but I get the same head scratch moments of "how the **** do these guys pull off these numbers?!" when looking at the top.