Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Nestama]

It more in the vain that Yoshi P saw the gender lock and could have kept it, but didn't. Wanting to start fresh going forward. That they were in favor of more character customization

Very true, but the "problem from the start" is still being seen as a lore response to me, since 1.0 had a noticeable lack of them. Though I guess male Miqo'te could easily get away with this considering their lore. Female Roegadyn and female Highlanders, though (which are far more common in ARR than male Miqo'te as NPC's, haha)...

There's also his other 2013 response.

[reivaxe]

We knew well before product release and anytime we think Viera, we think Fran.

We knew.
We all knew.

Not gonna act like I'm following any of this beyond the bare min (Did read one of Melichoir's post about resources and think it's a bit short sighted to think they simply want to make more CC options. IMO it's bigger, it's them working on a PSO2:NG level next step for the game that would include CC but that's off topic) but I will say that Viera desire seems to be more of a fantasy driven thing.

Looking at how common it was last year to find people whining about Viera being Viera made it clear to me that some number just wanted Bunny Neko girls. (As in the "Why aren't the white ones shorter!?!?" where people convinced themselves that the cute art style in some BS comparison made by a fan meant that there was a shorter, cuter, whiter version that they could use when the race is legit tall af and commonly brown. Again, when you think of Viera you think of Fran).

It's pretty much the reason for the "male Viera body type war" that was big enough that YP legit had so say "No, we will never make child-like Player characters".
It's some kinda combo of projection and willful ignorance imo. People have been pointing out for years YP's line about not doing Male Viera and people kinda convinced themselves that they promised to never do 1 gender races again regardless... like this vvv

Thank you so much for posting this source! Now when peeps ask for it i can give it

To put this in context the game had ...
Lala -Male/ Female
Middie-Male/ Female
Elezen- Male/ Female
Highlander-Male
Reo-Male
Cats-Female

That's a problem, 50% of races are monogendered. You would want to make them whole before adding any other race.
This doesn't mean that they're completely against monogender races as you can see from his comments about Viera in 2013 nor was it something that would later stop them from making Viera and Hrothgar as we see them today..more limited than any 1.0 race/ clan.

All this means is that before we ever get a new race (which we know isn't happening, they said these are the last) they would first do the counter-parts to what we have (something they have never confirmed to be doing. MAYBE they will show us NPCs at some point but even that's iffy as they know how much that would trigger a massive wave of people not realizing why an NPC is easier to make than a PC)

[Senn]

People have been pointing out for years YP's line about not doing Male Viera and people kinda convinced themselves that they promised to never do 1 gender races again regardless... like this vvv

Perhaps he will reconsider his stance like he has done on a few other things. This thread was created in order to show support for the inclusion of male viera, so chill out. Their appearance is a topic of discussion, but at the end of the day, what they look like would be up to the devs. I think we should respect the design choice of the devs if male viera really do get included.

All this means is that before we ever get a new race (which we know isn't happening, they said these are the last) they would first do the counter-parts to what we have (something they have never confirmed to be doing. MAYBE they will show us NPCs at some point but even that's iffy as they know how much that would trigger a massive wave of people not realizing why an NPC is easier to make than a PC)

A new race might not be entirely off the table.

When asked about whether viera and hrothgar would be the last new races to be introduced to the game, and if there were any plans to add more customization options to the established races, Yoshi P responded like this:

"if it is a customization option that significantly changes the shape of the races body, I think we would be better off to tackle the challenge of just introducing a new playable race all together instead."


Source: Link

Also, they probably won't show female hrothgar/male viera NPCs unless they are prepared to make them playable. Viera and hrothgar NPCs were not given head items at the start of ShB because the dev team was aware people would then ask "why can't we wear head items then?" This was a concern Yoshi P expressed in one of the live letters - the same logic can apply to the other genders as well. If we do see a male viera or female hrothgar NPC, then it would be safe to assume they will be playable options later.

[reivaxe]

Perhaps he will reconsider his stance like he has done on a few other things..

Maybe.

Fact of the matter is that he simply never promised NOT to do monogenders again as people like to think he did nor is doing it in ShB somehow sacrilege because "they said monogenders are WRONG before!". It was never a promise that could be broken and the context of what the game was back in ARR times vs what it is today can't be ignored as well as his stance on the topic of male Viera back then.

Maybe some day we will get the genders to the races we want ... but it is what it is. We got what we got right now. Maybe they will just make them NPCs to shows us them and have that backfire in their face as people don't know how much more work a PC is compared to an NPC. Who knows.

[Senn]

Maybe.

Fact of the matter is that he simply never promised NOT to do monogenders again as people like to think he did nor is doing it in ShB somehow sacrilege because "they said monogenders are WRONG before!". It was never a promise that could be broken and the context of what the game was back in ARR times vs what it is today can't be ignored as well as his stance on the topic of male Viera back then.

Maybe some day we will get the genders to the races we want ... but it is what it is. We got what we got right now. Maybe they will just make them NPCs to shows us them and have that backfire in their face as people don't know how much more work a PC is compared to an NPC. Who knows.

Yeah, some people are saying he promised that. I would like a source on it if true... But I'm not of the mindset he made any promises, either. I also don't think he or the dev team ever said it was "wrong". However, in my view, Yoshi P did see the missing genders (male miqo'te, female highlander/roegadyn) as problems that needed to be corrected at that time. We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out now. Again, about the NPC thing, there will most likely be no male viera or female hrothgar npcs - not until the dev team is prepared to make them playable. It will definitely backfire otherwise.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Please be civil or consider seeing a psychiatrist.

The irony is so thick, Tony Stark's making a suit out of it.

[Amnmaat]

The irony is so thick, Tony Stark's making a suit out of it.

Yes, women say I'm thick all the time; you can simmer down now.

Yeah, some people are saying he promised that. I would like a source on it if true... But I'm not of the mindset he made any promises, either. I also don't think he or the dev team ever said it was "wrong". However, in my view, Yoshi P did see the missing genders (male miqo'te, female highlander/roegadyn) as problems that needed to be corrected at that time. We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out now. Again, about the NPC thing, there will most likely be no male viera or female hrothgar npcs - not until the dev team is prepared to make them playable. It will definitely backfire otherwise.

In the end they saw a need to give us an official explanation about the missing genders for Viera and hrothgar, so they recognize the importance of it. What they need to next is explain why they're not adding them at fanfest or reveal them at fanfest. To not address it would really be in bad form.

[Nestama]

Amnmaat, they'd just repeat what they said here on why (if) they don't reveal/release the missing genders at Fan Fest/next expansion.

[Senn]

In the end they saw a need to give us an official explanation about the missing genders for Viera and hrothgar, so they recognize the importance of it. What they need to next is explain why they're not adding them at fanfest or reveal them at fanfest. To not address it would really be in bad form.

They already addressed the lack of male viera and female hrothgar. Even if the dev team decided to include male viera and female hrothgar, I don't think they would be ready by 6.0. We'll see.

[reivaxe]

A new race might not be entirely off the table.

When asked about whether viera and hrothgar would be the last new races to be introduced to the game, and if there were any plans to add more customization options to the established races, Yoshi P responded like this:

"if it is a customization option that significantly changes the shape of the races body, I think we would be better off to tackle the challenge of just introducing a new playable race all together instead."


Source: Link

Also, they probably won't show female hrothgar/male viera NPCs unless they are prepared to make them playable. Viera and hrothgar NPCs were not given head items at the start of ShB because the dev team was aware people would then ask "why can't we wear head items then?" This was a concern Yoshi P expressed in one of the live letters - the same logic can apply to the other genders as well. If we do see a male viera or female hrothgar NPC, then it would be safe to assume they will be playable options later.

That is a mighty reach.

All he is saying is that it's possible that they make new customization options but if the scope of those options were too large they would be better off as something new all together (cause yeah, redoing all the gear to look like a new body type is what they do for new races and putting in the amount of work to make a Viera body that's tall and thin like an elezen but better proportioned would be better used for a new race than as a 10years late addition to them).
Aka, don't expect ass sliders or anything that would change much about the body or head shape of the race. It's easy to forget how outdated this CC is, it's not a problem for many older and newer Character Creatures to allow you to have wider hips or thighs or slimmer features. In this game though? you can't control any of that. And the "leaving a crack open for more new races" bit ... I think it's the classic "never wanna say no but it's not gonna happen" Japanese talk.

Like yeah, I can't think of them saying anything about it in the past 9 months off the top of my head (though I'm sure they touched on it in the Hrothgar panel but I can't be bothered to keep rewatching it just to talk about the same nothing) so much like with Viera hair and helms I'll give it the benefit of "latest news tops older" till I come across that again. But looking at Viera and Hrothgar as is ... makes it clear they prob don't have the ability to make more stuff than they do now unless something changes.

As for seeing the other genders, Datamines suggest we may.