Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Of course no one is "forcing" them. Not like they are being held at gun point. I don't think Amnmaat meant it in the literal sense, either? Though it is him we're talking about, so...
Like Yoshi P said, due to player feedback, they "had" to add them. Or else people would wonder why they didn't add viera.

He could have done a better job at conveying that if that was the point. But who knows if he might try to piggyback off you since you came to his rescue.
Its happened in past convos Ive had with others.
But regardless

[Amnmaat]

The genders aren't missing. We knew we weren't getting them and they did exactly what they said they would.

The controversy is on the players expectation not the actions of the devs.

It won't stop or be affected...the way you wish it would

Devs never told the consumers that we weren't getting male Viera before the product reveal of Shadowbringers around mid March 2019. You can't tell us to not set expectations when you didn't give us any.

[DBriggs304]

Devs never told the consumers that we weren't getting male Viera before the product reveal of Shadowbringers around mid March 2019. You can't tell us to not set expectations when you didn't give us any.

We knew well before it came out. Plenty of time to not buy it or more than enough time to get refunded for pre-orders.

The expectations were yours.
Not theirs.

[Amnmaat]

We knew well before it came out. Plenty of time to not buy it or more than enough time to get refunded for pre-orders.

The expectations were yours.
Not theirs.

Not true, your starting argument was that missing genders is not a problem. My retort was that it was and is a problem, a problem they created for themselves. Furthermore, they alluded to why they added (female) Viera, because the fans would question why they didn't add them. So it's not a expectations problem, it's a problem they created themselves. When we asked for Viera we asked for both genders.

[Kazran]

I know that, I'm talking about the people that wanted Viera. They only know them as female so where did this expectation come from?

I think the expectation ultimately comes from them adding the missing genders from 1.0, male Miqote and Female Roes.

Male miqote, are lore wise, supposed to be super rare in an equivalent rate compared to Male Viera. And yet they added them. They could have stuck with the transplanted lore from 11 but they didn't they did their own thing. They correct this gender lock with the rebirth of 14 and so many people assumed it would be a relic of 1.0. And when they added Au'Ra both genders were preasent.

Now there is info going around saying something
like that Yoshi-p stating that gender locks were a mistake, but i have yet to find the source, i believe it was probably during a live letter, specifically the one where the genders were announced, I have no idea which one it was. but I cant be sure.

Funnily enough In my search for primary sources on said supposed gender lock comment I found that 1.0 players were having very similar conversations about Male Miqote and female Roes, very similar arguments even.

Like people useing ff11 lore to justify their absence, that no one wants to play giant women, etc. It was actually pretty amazing how reflective it was.

[Melichoir]

So you think the cutting back on content and getting additional funding are signs that character customization might get expanded? Well, I'm not sure if that is the case, but if it is, that'd be pretty nice.

Not necessarily that it is evidence of it happening, but it is a solid consideration. I explained this a little while back but the TLDR is take stock of the situation for the dev teams (Covid Aside). More money is reportedly now being funneled into FFXIV, they are expanding their dev team as well, and they decided to change release and content cycle (again prior to covid slow downs). Theyve also, if youve noticed, started pushing MogStation a bit harder htis last year. Like or hate Mogstation, the funds from there do go directly into FFXIV and no other place. Then you have teh Nier Raids. Unlike previous raids where theyd have to create assets from scratch, pretty sure this time around theyre importing some of it which cuts down work load. From a development end, the Nier Raids are probably not as development heavy for what they are by comparison to previous 24 mans.

Furthermore, there are plenty of criticisms about how Viera and Hrothgar were implemented that they know are apparent. Both feel semi 'unfinished' customization wise compared to other races. Forget helmets and headwear, the simple fact hrothgar and viera have so few hairstyles and require a fanta for Hrothgar to really change what you got is an issue. And they have made no real issue to fix both even though that this is an issue that is pretty well criticized by virtually everyone, here and overseas. If you pick up more devs, cut back on how much you have to push out, and recieve more funding - and this is all before pandemic lockdowns - what exactly could they be working on? As I said, character customization is a big thing people have been asking for consistently, and with Viera and Hrothgar having model issues, and the off sexes still being requested/desired atleast by a vocal minority, one of the few things that actually makes sense what theyre spending their time on (beyond regular development ish), would be reworking their character customization engine as it is the engine that is the source of a lot of these problems. Cant add new races cause of how the game handles character model armor which is down stream from the engine. Same issues with the Viera and Hrothgar, same issues with the character customization issues itself. Its all related to the character creation engine. It's a Herculean task to be sure, but if they were doing that, itd solve a lot of issues long term and be a big boost to the game.

Now this is all speculation on my part, but of all things I dont think the dev team is sitting there sipping champagne and twiddling their thumbs while they rake in all the extra cash and free up dev time. These are teh devs that added some headwear to Hrothgar and Viera when it was initially planned by YoshiP that wouldnt even happen. I think they want to see the game be successful and that if they want the game to stay fresh, so it is only a matter of time before the character customization engine would have to be addressed.

Well not much of a TLDR but I hope that explained my thoughts. Maybe we'll get something completely different, who knows ultimately. But Im decently optimistic that character customization will probably get an update come next xpac. It's just a bunch of small things that add into something.

[DBriggs304]

Not true, your starting argument was that missing genders is not a problem. My retort was that it was and is a problem, a problem they created for themselves. Furthermore, they alluded to why they added (female) Viera, because the fans would question why they didn't add them. So it's not a expectations problem, it's a problem they created themselves. When we asked for Viera we asked for both genders.

Missing genders aren't a problem. Because they aren't missing aka we knew we weren't getting them. In more than enough time. We asked for Viera. We got Viera. We asked for Hrothgar. We got Hrothgar.

How could it have been asked for both genders when your entire premise was they strategically waited to tell us until the end?

Your entire defense and reasoning has been deflated. You are grasping at anything now to fit your narrative.

Aka...Your Expectations.

[Melichoir]

Missing genders aren't a problem. Because they aren't missing aka we knew we weren't getting them. In more than enough time. We asked for Viera. We got Viera. We asked for Hrothgar. We got Hrothgar.

How could it have been asked for both genders when your entire premise was they strategically waited to tell us until the end?

Your entire defense and reasoning has been deflated. You are grasping at anything now to fit your narrative.

Aka...Your Expectations.

Umm, maybe you can provide some source on a few of these. IIRC I do remember people askign for viera...but not necessarily Hrothgar. At least not in big numbers. And when people generally ask for a new race, it is encompassing both male and female sides, not just one. It may not be explicitely stated, but expected among players, particularly if there is a soft precedent for it already in the game. Which is also why some of the hype happened the way it did. Again, they showed female viera, played footsy about whether we would get male viera (which would be a FF First and be huge news in general for the franchise as a whole, not just the game) and didnt say nah to it. Fans ran with it cause it wasnt a huge jump to expect it.

Now maybe people did get out over their skis on this, but you shouldnt sit there and call them unrealistic for what they expected.

[Senn]

Now there is info going around saying something
like that Yoshi-p stating that gender locks were a mistake, but i have yet to find the source, i believe it was probably during a live letter, specifically the one where the genders were announced, I have no idea which one it was. but I cant be sure.

Not in those exact words, but Yoshi P said the lack of male miqo'te and female roegadyn was a problem.

MAC: In adding female Roegadyn and male Miqo'te into Final Fantasy XIV, how are you going to explain adding them in? Any other new changes to the races in game?

NY: The lack of female Roegadyn and male Miqo'te was a problem from the beginning. Rather than emphasizing the reason for introducing them, we're seeing it as a way to start fresh with every race having a male and female option available. While we are not considering new playable races until future expansion packs, A Realm Reborn will feature many more options for character customization.

Source


Edit:
It is possible Yoshi P did say something along the lines of the missing genders (female highlander/roegadyn, male miqo'te) were a problem in a live letter. Unfortunately, it's hard to find. If I find it, I'll post it.
However, I think it's reasonable to assume that, at the time, the general consensus was that the missing genders were considered a problem that needed to be corrected. Not an interview or anything like that, but this article does give some perspective. Link to article

[DBriggs304]

Umm, maybe you can provide some source on a few of these. IIRC I do remember people askign for viera...but not necessarily Hrothgar. At least not in big numbers. And when people generally ask for a new race, it juis encompassing both male and female sides, not just one. It may not be explicitely stated, but expected among players, particularly if there is a soft precedent for it already in the game. Which is also why some of the hype happened the way it did. Again, they showed female viera, played footsy about whether we would get male viera (which would be a FF First and be huge news in general for the franchise as a whole, not just the game) and didnt say nah to it. Fans ran with it cause it wasnt a huge jump to expect it.

Now maybe people did get out over their skis on this, but you shouldnt sit there and call them unrealistic for what they expected.

Its unrealistic when you know what is coming (as we did) yet expect something totally different (as people are doing) and then take the position of not being given said knowledge in the first place.