Summoner: An action or a dot?

[Shougun]

Shougun do we seriously have to go through this again? Its not subverting expectations when you still summon like every summoner and you still got side spells that isnt summons like every summoner in the series . especially when its made from a well established magic system.

Summoner does not summon just anything. They summon grand creatures to perform grand feats. ARR summoned in effect puny elementals, and maybe once in a blue moon with enkindle you'd get a sort of neat effect.

ARR SMN was akin to FFXI SMN if all FFXI's SMN was summon elemental spirits. Which would have been pretty bad. Clearly FFXI didn't feel like a summoner just because it summoned elementals. It was because it summoned these awesome creatures.

You will never change my mind (/Equip stubborn lvl 99 :3) to make summoner as simple and paltry as summoning chibi makes you on par with any other summoners of the series. If you call it a FF game then I'm going to compare to other FF games. Dont use the series title if you don't want to be burdened by it's image.

So yes we do and always will have to go through this, assuming we are disusing visual narrative lol (as I edit, my vibe is we are slightly off point on each other). Unless the whole game is chibi themed (then chibi SMN is perfect), but to change Summoner from what is in effect is the most fancy and grandiose job in the entire franchise into a fast food chibi caller with some dots (playing off the meme Titan is a potato). Never going to be on that same page with someone on that lol (nor do I feel obligated to not respond if I think someone is playing fast and loose with history and acting as if there wasn't an incredibly consistent tone with all the past summon contents/jobs or that it has no relationship/importance).

It is a subversion to change a core concept (upset expectations, this isn't always a bad thing- sometimes it creates 'fresh' takes), if you compare every single SMN to each other and the jobs (or characters and spells in jobless FF)- FFXIV stands out as being different. They made some reasons for it, like Yoshida wanting to respect the primals by making them world bosses you could call out as a FC but at the cost of changing summoners vibes.

If you give dark knight only the most bland and boring black magic sure it's still dark knight, but it's kind of lame. Especially if all the other dark knights didn't have that issue. So in this case summoner never had a meager appearance until FFXIV ARR. Ever. They have of course worked to change that, demi(s) and trances included.

So I don't want to give the appearance I'm against what they've done recently, I've in fact regularly cheered the changes (even if sometimes some polish or smoothing might be needed here and there).

Also just in case there is a confusion I'm demanding dots to be removed or the job get a whole rework, though I think primal infusion would be neat (after a certain level or mechanic- such that ifrit turns bio it burn for example). I was mostly responding to the idea that FFXIV lives in a vacuum with no predecessors and that there was no through visual narrative to the job. If your argument is purely summoners have used black and white magic before than yeah sure lol- that's a fact.