The toxicity starting to happen.

[Yuella]

the difference between small pulls and big pulls is less than 5 minutes. just chill and follow the tank's pace.

[Nestama]

Yeah nah. Party controls the pace, not the tank. If the party wants bigger pulls, then the tank has to conform and do bigger pulls... and they're not hard to do. I don't main tank (or healer), yet I can easily manage big pulls. Only time they get sketchy is if the healer is just a Curebot and DPS don't know how to AoE somehow.

[kaynide]

Fun facts: I've *almost* never seen any of this on Japanese data center. People might complain behind closed doors etc, but there's a wonderful culture of keeping your mouth shut and just letting people play the !@% game.

Most of the conversation I've seen just went along the lines of "Healer> Sorry, I'm not comfortable with such large pulls" "Tank> OK". (or vice versa), or alternatively offers of explanation after a wipe.

I've seen and played both ways, but the only people I've ever had mouth off and openly complain were doing so in English, and oddly enough complaining while doing mentor roulette with a sprout... not explanation, just "omg you're so slow /leave"

Yeah nah. Party controls the pace, not the tank.

Not meaning to be argumentative at you by any means, but I've put up with crappy tanks/healers just to avoid the 30m wait in line for another dungeon as DPS. As a tank/healer, those pops are instant and I have absolutely just left parties to their fate for having crappy attitudes towards each other. I would never leave because of a player trying hard but failing...but bullying is where I draw the line.

In a recent roulette in Aurum Vale, I was pulling slow because a Japanese healer asked me to- The 2 DPS that were bullying the hell out of our her for a lot of close calls ultimately leading to an avoidable, but understandable wipe with [Mr. Just Got His Attack Markers This Patch]. Just told a healer "hey we're in the same world, let's just leave this, form party and re-queue". It was after 15 min into the dungeon, so we could just jump right into a new one. Sastasha never felt so good

[VirusOnline]

Fun facts: I've *almost* never seen any of this on Japanese data center. People might complain behind closed doors etc, but there's a wonderful culture of keeping your mouth shut and just letting people play the !@% game.

Most of the conversation I've seen just went along the lines of "Healer> Sorry, I'm not comfortable with such large pulls" "Tank> OK". (or vice versa), or alternatively offers of explanation after a wipe.

I've seen and played both ways, but the only people I've ever had mouth off and openly complain were doing so in English, and oddly enough complaining while doing mentor roulette with a sprout... not explanation, just "omg you're so slow /leave"

The Japanese argument, really ?
Call me a masochist, but being ignorant to a situation for the sake of peace is no better than openly complaining. Imagine being on a public blacklist because no one wanted to say to your face that you need to be better.

[kaynide]

The Japanese argument, really ?
Call me a masochist, but being ignorant to a situation for the sake of peace is no better than openly complaining. Imagine being on a public blacklist because no one wanted to say to your face that you need to be better.

I think we just get that it's not worth complaining or ruining someone's day to save 5 minutes in a random dungeon with people we'll never see again?

I mean I get being in top form to clear bleeding-edge content, but a random romp in Brayflox? Really? It's worth ruining the game for a newbie so your ePeen feels better?

Also, not sure what you mean by a public server-wide blacklist, never heard of that here in Japan for FFXIV. Is that an American thing? Sounds like a lot of trouble to report on something so mundane.

Or are you talking the endgame community, because yeah that does exist, but it's more about being a crappy person in endgame community/being toxic in general. Not so much about those random bumps in casual play.

[Legion88]

the difference between small pulls and big pulls is less than 5 minutes. just chill and follow the tank's pace.

Yeah, it's "just" 5 minutes and just a tiny amount but by a total of 15 minutes vs 20 Minutes it's 25% and that is huge in comparision.

I know big pulls as part of this game since back to Bryflox's Longstop (Hard), so 2.25, where the general strat was "pull everything to the bossline, pull the boss and lock as much of the trash outside of the boss arena as possible".
After that dungeon was introduced double, tripple and full pulling started to be the general strategy for every dungeon and it worked.
But then SE decided to put "walls" and "gates" into the dungeons and force the players to fight the trash between the bosses but you can still pull everything from wall to wall, even with gear near the min. iLvL but it will be slightly more challanging and DefCDs and more frequent healing are recommended.

Fun facts: I've *almost* never seen any of this on Japanese data center. People might complain behind closed doors etc, but there's a wonderful culture of keeping your mouth shut and just letting people play the !@% game.

Yeah, but the healer not being comfortable with large pulls will still works his ass off to make the run as fast as possible for the party, while on the western DCs a healer not comfortable with big pulls mostly just wants to have more downtime to do things not related to completing the content. Japanese healers are still goal orientated and will DPS as much as possible independent of the pull size while we in the west have to fight against meme pure healers as the standard for this communities healers.

[kaynide]

Yeah, it's "just" 5 minutes and just a tiny amount but by a total of 15 minutes vs 20 Minutes it's 25% and that is huge in comparision.

I waste more time derping out in front of the market board or staring off into space, so I'm not really concerned here. If we were talking 20 min ballooning into a 1 hour extravaganza it might be different.

Japanese healers are still goal orientated and will DPS as much as possible independent of the pull size while we in the west have to fight against meme pure healers as the standard for this communities healers.

I mean maybe, but I would say general competency/goals are about the same for any country really. Any differences we see is more about manners in my very humble opinion. I mean, when my wife is a healer, she basically goes into dungeons kicking and screaming like the whole building is on fire. She gets so nervous people might die that she just doesn't really do a lot of DPS. That said she refuses to PUG as tank or healer more out of a fear of letting others down than any particular worry about people getting angry at her.

ah, clarification if I didn't mention, she is Japanese.

[micropanther7]

I'll be honest, I see less toxicity in game then people complain about online (only the occasional elitist or troll) and I see MORE toxicity on places like Reddit.

This so much, I never wanted to attempt raiding because of these forums and reddit, well not just because of that, I hate being a burden... I had to do it for Shadowbringers, warned new groups I'm late to the party, get anxious and forgive me for any mistakes. They were awesome, patient and kind, out of all three raids, one person was complaining about new players going into raids. They got told to shut up lol.

[Peace-Division]

Another example of faux outrage.

Someone experiences a douche bag in a group setting then comes to the forum and states "this community is suffering from a-holes and it needs to stop".

That couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of players just want to get through the content, if they are higher level players doing there roulette's and new players are there to experience it all new and most are enjoying themselves.

There are instances where I as a tank role get dps that "help" pull more, or a healer that struggles to keep up on large pulls because they hard cast cure 1 and dont use regen but its the exception not the norm. In almost all daily group settings its silence, or the typical hi,hey o/. There are some cases where new players will say they are new, but that's about the most of it. Heck the most i see people "chat" is during msq roulette.


There are lots of new players coming here since 5.3 with the generous play time the trial gives now which is great, but if they were to come to these forums the impression they would get from the community at large wouldn't be a good one if they were to believe what people were saying was gospel.


This place is turning into twitter.

[ForteNightshade]

Actually, with jump potions or by having leveling first a dps and then begin a GNB, you can totally be new to tanking at lvl 60 or 70.

That isn't an excuse. If you unlock Gunbreaker and skip to 70, the onus remains on you to have either studied guides or go back into easier content until you have a bit of raw experience. If you jump Warrior and then immediately queue into Holminster Switch, I'll treat you exactly the same as someone who started at level 1. Jump potions shouldn't mean everyone now has to adjust because of your laziness. And it is laziness. If I could take the time spamming Aurum Vale and Darkhold a couple times way back in Heavensward because I leveled Dark Knight entirely through FATEs (Yo-Kai event 1.0) while doing some research. You can too.