Everything wrong with 5.3 AST sleeve draw [Translated JP duplicate thread]

[Heilstos]

You are misunderstanding the point of this post. We don't care that AST DPS was nerfed, if anything that was the right thing to do to balance it with DPS contributions of its counterparts. Its HOW they did it. We are pointing out that adjustments that heavily penalize people that try hard are both demotivating and ineffective.

It is not evident what is then from point 1-2. Then the problem is there.

1. Says that the optimization has ceased. Taking stress as a positive factor in style of playing is not a good idea. There are also players who have been given a certain distance by this additional burden. And ultimately it was more of a deterrent.

The cooldowns of Divination and Sleeve Draw are 120s and 180s respectively, so for 1 in 2 Divinations it is physically impossible to utilize Sleeve’s new search effect, and we are simply required to obtain Seals with less cards. In fact, we are now forced as a result to spam Redraw with cards we were previously able to play, and have far less options regarding Minor Arcana. We also now need to wait prepull for Draw recast in order to use Divination for opener, which feels bad in PF context.

At this point I have to say that it sounds very much like the rDPS is nerfed. According to the motto kings and queens fall away. The cards had to be shuffled was already the case in 5.2.

Regarding the point of criticism that SD is now preparing fewer options, there is only one statement that is partially correct. Because getting the 100% correct card requires less pressure to have options and work with RNG factors.

That we ALWAYS have to wait 30 seconds for the cards before the pull. I already had it because I usually used an MA card (King or Queen) as the first card in prepull. So so group had to wait 30 sek anyways.

In my opinion, the whole point 2 only has something to do with rDpS and the factor that you have to wait 30 seconds beforehand. This is already the case in patch 5.2!

I've already written something about that, which wasn't relevant for you. Because the question "This implementation is flawed as a QoL improvement in the first place" goes exactly on this point.

To the solution:

The simple step back from SD is again a step backwards in a stressfull way to play the cards out. This change results in an optimization. (albeit in a passive way!) You don't have to knock out 3 cards and hope that you get a 6% divination. That now 2 cards are omitted and if there is rDps, but with a view to the fact that you no longer have to change too many destinations in the opener.

Has the developer solved this solution in a lazy way? YES, but relieve stress under the primis. Now we have to see how the elimination of cards and "little problems" with the pull of non-disciplined PF groups affects itself.

[hiz]

Heilstos your level of misunderstanding is so large I am beginning to suspect it is because of my bad English, and I will apologize for it. I will try once more.

At this point I have to say that it sounds very much like the rDPS is nerfed.

No. I don't know what part of "We don't care that AST DPS was nerfed~it was the right thing to do" was ambiguous, but I will say it again. The job was too powerful, it needed a DPS nerf. If they nerfed Malefic 4 by 10 potency I have zero issues whatsoever.

1. Says that the optimization has ceased. Taking stress as a positive factor in style of playing is not a good idea. There are also players who have been given a certain distance by this additional burden. And ultimately it was more of a deterrent.

To the solution:
The simple step back from SD is again a step backwards in a stressfull way to play the cards out. This change results in an optimization. (albeit in a passive way!) You don't have to knock out 3 cards and hope that you get a 6% divination. That now 2 cards are omitted and if there is rDps, but with a view to the fact that you no longer have to change too many destinations in the opener.

I feel the fundamental misconception in your argument is your assumption that pre 5.3 SD was universally a stress factor. It may have been for you, but it was certainly not for people that can press buttons. If you feel that this change is somehow positive in optimization context, you are forcing me to assume you have never optimized anything in this game (I am not implying that this is bad, I am pointing to this as a potential reason why I'm not coming through to you).

Here is a translated sample of optimized P2 opener for E8 that we came up with, where we spreaded every job's potency timeline so every card played returned maximum expected potency. It may be hard for you to understand, but we ENJOYED spending time thinking about what's best, and felt rewarded by the material gains we saw from correctly executing this. For people like us it was NEVER a stress factor, and most contrary to a deterrent; this was exactly the fun factor of this iteration of the job, that made us feel it was worth playing. New SD has dumbed this down into nothing, and we now have half a job to play with. ←THIS IS OUR PROBLEM WITH NEW SD

What we suggested for players like you that found old SD difficlut/stressful to manage was to give them the option to randomly autoplay the cards drawn. As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine if randomplay mode guaranteed three seals. That way people like you don't have to press buttons, and people like us that care to optimize for increasing 1% expected damage can go on theorycrafting on an interesting mechanic, and we thought this is the best for both worlds.

[hiz]

That we ALWAYS have to wait 30 seconds for the cards before the pull. I already had it because I usually used an MA card (King or Queen) as the first card in prepull. So so group had to wait 30 sek anyways.

Again untrue. The difference between new and old SD is that with old SD you could still Divi on opener even if your PF tank abruptly starts pulling, while with new SD this is physically impossible. Hence the wording "it feels bad in PF context". In all honesty I couldn't parse some of your English, and if I'm still not coming through it's probably my fault. I am sorry.

AST now has top rdps, top mobility, buckets of mana and is easier to play. It's the best healer in the game by far.

True, but my point is the job still suffered a nerf (which I'm fine with), and the way they did it sucks. I'm really not trying to talk about DPS here.

[owolett]

That we ALWAYS have to wait 30 seconds for the cards before the pull. I already had it because I usually used an MA card (King or Queen) as the first card in prepull. So so group had to wait 30 sek anyways.

Why you would ever play MA first is beyond me, that's just flat out wrong. You wanted your seals as fast as possible for Divination, and you need your MA as filler in order to replace duplicate seals after a Redraw. Far too many people got the old opener wrong despite it being readily available and intuitive, making it harder than it should've - for example not using Lightspeed during the opener in order to weave more cards.

Regardless you never HAD to wait 30s before the pull - you always had AT LEAST 4 cards, now if you want a Divination in the opener you have to wait.

[hiz]

Ik people are harping on Ast for the now seemingly forced waiting, but if you are caring about full optimisation then your already waiting 30 secs for Dnc, most groups won't do it because it is such a pitiful gain that it isn't worth it but technically Dnc was antithesis to Sch's aetherflow long before this patch happened, it is just Ast's Divination is more valued, but just wanted to point out it isn't a new thing with Ast that runs contrary to why Aetherflow was restricted the way it was.

Ok sure, I think myself and a few others have clarified what exactly the problem is on this matter, but I will give it here again.

We also now need to wait prepull for Draw recast in order to use Divination for opener, which feels bad in PF context.

Regardless you never HAD to wait 30s before the pull - you always had AT LEAST 4 cards, now if you want a Divination in the opener you have to wait.

For DNC, I don't play the job myself but as far as I am aware precasting or not precasting Standard Finish has no effect whatsoever on its rotation nor its party buffs (as you have mentioned yourself already). The issue here is that for AST it is physically impossible to cast Divination without waiting prepull, unlike DNC that is unaffected rotation-wise whether they precast Standard Finish or not.