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  1. #1
    Player
    queenevilfluffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    10
    Character
    Alina Larna
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 80

    Scholar feels kinda wonky

    I used to play a lot pre stormblood before all the changes, those changes are why I dropped summoner as my main class and swapped to dancer. I was one of those scumbag summoners who would use scholar to instaqueue dungeons. I went to use scholar to level summoner and gave up after one dungeon and just used summoner to level.
    But like I geared up completely and while the tank doesn't die anymore, I'm still mashing physick sometimes on big pulls.
    The fairy feels completely weaker. Aetherflow not being available prepull is a stupid change, why would they do that. And I understand Lustrate is supposed to be our "cure 2" but with aetherflow tied to so many actions, we need either a better cooldown for aetherflow or have it be usable outside of battles. Or improve the fairy's cure potency.

    I like doing heals from time to time and I'm giving up on scholar. Astro is fun, but is a controller nightmare, and whm is just not fun to me. It feels like facesmashing.

    Am I doing scholar wrong?
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player Mhaeric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,141
    Character
    Mhaeric Llystrom
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by queenevilfluffy View Post
    Am I doing scholar wrong?
    There are a few things just from your post I can see that are a bit of a misconception.

    Adloquium is your Cure 2, not Lustrate. Lustrate is by far the lowest priority for Aetherflow use. The only time I've ever needed/wanted to use it is if the tank is hemorrhaging HP like it's going out of style or if I'm in lower content where the other Aetherflow abilities aren't yet available. Lustrate used to be SCH's best abilities, but the other Aetherflow abilities outpace it as the Scholar levels up. E.g. Sacred Soil, particularly at 80 when it gains a regen, is one of the best heals we have. Excogitation is straight up a more powerful heal with better utility than Lustrate. And even Indomitability is more useful than Lustrate 90% of the time since if one person has lost HP it's most likely that they're not the only one that needs healing.

    The fairy can definitely feel weak since its healing is second hand to yours and delayed, but it's definitely more powerful than it feels. On a typical dungeon run, my fairy accounts for about 60% of all the healing I do for example. During a full pull in a dungeon, as another example, Seraph can handle most of the healing herself as long as you use her abilities, have a pre-cast Adloquium and Excogitation in place and plop down a Sacred Soil. Only if the DPS is a little slow do I have to worry about tossing out another Adloquium or Excogitation. Sometimes the initial Excog doesn't even trigger. In general, you get the most use out of her (and Scholar in general) by knowing fights and planning ahead. Making good use of abilities in conjunction with each other is also key. E.g. Recitation with Excogitation most of the time, Whispering Dawn with Fey Blessing, knowing when it's best to use Emergency Tactics with Adloquium, etc.

    The problems with Scholar aren't with how well it heals, it does that just fine. Problems do exist with it, however, but they are more that when doing single target damage any oGCD healing results a larger dps loss than it does for AST/WHM, and using the fairy can be clunky with most of the fairy abliities being somewhat disjointed from each other. Since there's a delay before she executes the action, you have to be really careful with using multiple fairy abilities in a row since you can easily cause her to put an ability on cooldown but not have her use it. My rule of thumb to avoid this is never double weave any fairy abilities if at all possible, and if I do double weave then I make sure to not use a fairy ability on the following GCD. The fairy gauge is mostly useless too since it's only tied to 2 abilities, one of which has a really long CD of 60s so has no meaningful impact on the gauge level so the gauge really is only used for the one ability. The other disjointed thing is that several fairy abliities are mutually exclusive. Disjunction completely takes away the fairy, Fey Union prevents the fairy from using anything else while linked (although it doesn't outright prevent it - using a fairy ability during Fey Union just causes the fairy to cancel the link to use the ability) and Seraph locks you out of both of those.

    If I had to sum up the difference between WHM, SCH and AST in a single sentence for someone who has never played them before it would be that WHM is the most straightforward healer, AST is the busiest/speediest healer, and SCH is the most complex healer.
    (5)
    Last edited by Mhaeric; 09-04-2020 at 09:05 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    elioaiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Junhee Hatsuharu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 94
    That's because SCH is clunky and pet AI is even worse. Not to be dark about SCH but in SB it was much better.

    The fairy was stronger, the kit felt good and while things like Recitation and improved Dissipation are welcome. The job was changed from great to worse imo.

    The ability to cast fairy skills independently from your actions is gone. Basically your fairy is Beacon while you have to cast them as oGCDs. This introduced another problem, ghosting. If you double weaved fairy skills there's a good chance one of them may not go off. This is due to how they made the fairy unresponsive and slow.

    On top of that, SCH lost a decent portion of their DoTs to weave their oGCDs inbetween, causing you to eat a DPS loss if you need to weave outside of your normal Biolysis timer. Since they have a bunch of oGCDs, making sacrifices are inevitable.

    The whole role is in a need of a rework tbh, but I think SCH is in a rough spot and needs a bit of QoL changes to make it feel less clunky.
    (13)

  4. #4
    Player
    GrimGale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,112
    Character
    Grim Gaelasch
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhaeric View Post
    The problems with Scholar aren't with how well it heals, it does that just fine. Problems do exist with it, however, but they are more that when doing single target damage any oGCD healing results a larger dps loss than it does for AST/WHM, and using the fairy can be clunky with most of the fairy abliities being somewhat disjointed from each other.
    I wish we had a Damaging oCD that consumed Fairy gauge rather than AF. While we have Energy Drain consuming Aetherflow we will always have this problem of losing dps over healing.

    We could have gotten the SMN treatment and have Energy Drain grant AF charges instead.

    On a side note I also would like to have more impactful damage animations. If we get Kaustra as the big satisfying finish damaging spell at some point, I hope it looks spectacular.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Sylvain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,491
    Character
    Sylvestre Solscribe
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    I just want a1. 5s broil and a macro command to place the fairy at the center of the map
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Rivinhal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    42
    Character
    Luna Fhey
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimGale View Post
    While we have Energy Drain consuming Aetherflow we will always have this problem of losing dps over healing.

    We could have gotten the SMN treatment and have Energy Drain grant AF charges instead
    Yep. Imo, the technical issues resulting from the fairy rework (as others have mentioned) combined with the weird design choices that make you actively force you to choose between healing and DPSing (not only w/ uptime, but via resources) make SCH supremely unfun to play.

    Everything about it feels wrong, and the sad thing is that I didn't even realize how bad it was until I started healing savage content with my static.
    The fairy just eats your abilities sometimes? Big oof.
    You have to burn all your Aetherflow on Energy Drain to deal reasonable dps? Ehhhh....
    You don't actually ever want to use your shields, the entire mechanic that makes you unique? Smh.

    I had to stop playing SCH. I just wasn't having fun. I was always so frustrated trying to play it at a high level. And I'm glad I did, but it's still a shame. I want to love the job, but I just can't put up with all of it's issues.
    (4)

  7. #7
    Player
    Grimoire-M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    987
    Character
    Grimoire Mogri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    I’m enjoying the new tools we got and the fact that QA is gone and Dissipation is good now does add more to its gameplay for me, but I miss a lot too. I wish timing Deploy for double shields wasn’t so difficult now (You can do it, it's not worth it), and more DoTs and a better Ruin II would be appreciated. Fairy oGCDs feel better at my ping and latency levels (stable, but around 200) than it used to, but I get why people prefer the old system. It's consistent now, but you get a variable delay that can eat the input entirely, and you have to weave it in your GCD. Back then, you could mash and it would go off immediately, even while you're hard-casting. The same Place override nonsense still works if you're willing to do it, and Place itself can be done while hardcasting still too, but it's not worth it nearly as much as it used to be.

    For dps, restoring some of SCH's former DoTs (One hardcast with a super long duration, 45s maybe, one instant GCD with 21s for more weaving opportunities), and adding an independent charge based dps cooldown for extra double weaving opportunities is all I really want. Healing wise I feel all three healers need tuning down so they achieve similar throughput in unique ways, while actually needing to engage with their GCDs more, including SCH. For them specifically I think reintroducing Bane then upgrading it to Deployment Tactics would be ideal, but beyond that I'm not sold on anything 'extra' healing wise. I don't feel SCH needs a lot, just enough to make using what they do have less obnoxious or overbearing when put in an environment where they're 'good' relative to the other two like they used to be. Most of the Tank and Healer interactions from pre-ShB were worth keeping around, just not Quickened Aetherflow and Rouse specifically.
    (0)
    Last edited by Grimoire-M; 09-06-2020 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Gorondu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Nayu Schattenfell
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Why do they simply not lower the cast time of Broil? Like AST do have. That would make SCH feel so much better. AST still has the ability to do full dps while moving with lightspeed.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Bsrking5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    1,018
    Character
    Alpha Lupi
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    They fixed the pet double weave lost CD. I double weave sometimes, works just fine. Fairy gauge seems pretty weak thou. Ruin 2 is instant cast for weaving and moving.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    Gorondu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Nayu Schattenfell
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Bsrking5 View Post
    They fixed the pet double weave lost CD. I double weave sometimes, works just fine. Fairy gauge seems pretty weak thou. Ruin 2 is instant cast for weaving and moving.
    Ruin 2 is damage loss. Imo all healers should have their default attack cast time reduced. Would lessen the pain when weaving. AST has it already so no need there.
    (2)

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