Gath and his concern for lack of LS competition.

[jwang]

Is claim wars really a sign of skill and achievement? More free time to sit around waiting for a pop, utilizing some sort of third party program, or having a better ping does not prove that you are better than anyone else, and if you try to say that you're better at something because you can claim better, all that does is make you look like a conceited jerk in my eyes.

In my opinion, true signs of skill is being able to coordinate your group to accomplish multiple tasks at the same time to achieve an overall goal. Whether this is grouping up on a daily basis to grind levels so everyone can have level 50, coordinating gatherers and crafters to efficiently produce gear, or figuring out a better strategy to beat a NM, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you and your friends have decided on a target goal, and have managed to reach it as a group. Extra kudos if there are little or no information on this achievement you decided to go after, and you are the ones breaking new grounds in strategy.

[Eldaena]

With no gain?

Spending time with other people has no gain?
When you finally see yourself or another one of your friends finally get something is no gain?
When your shell is looked at as something other than a shell is no gain?

You must be one of those selfish types I keep hearing about.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

I spend lots of time with my friends and I don't need to fight another LS for it. We're a happy LS and we're all friends, and on top of that we're all good players and take care of end game content without a problem. We help each other out and cheer each other on, but we also respect people outside of our LS too. Even if we could camp over someone else, we wouldn't. It's a big finger to act like you're more important than someone else or their linkshell by getting claims on things over them. There are people behind our characters in game that I choose to respect, but I guess I'm not the one with the point of view of self-interest, and maybe you are. Maybe you're okay with stepping on other people to get what you want.

[Gath]

I spend lots of time with my friends and I don't need to fight another LS for it. We're a happy LS and we're all friends, and on top of that we're all good players and take care of end game content without a problem. We help each other out and cheer each other on, but we also respect people outside of our LS too. Even if we could camp over someone else, we wouldn't. It's a big finger to act like you're more important than someone else or their linkshell by getting claims on things over them. There are people behind our characters in game that I choose to respect, but I guess I'm not the one with the point of view of self-interest, and maybe you are. Maybe you're okay with stepping on other people to get what you want.

What you said just now has nothing to do with what you said earlier.

You said that there was "no gain" in doing the things Gath listed, yet, with what you just said contradicted that. by saying "me and my friends complete end game content" There's really no gain for killing stuff...or do you change your mind?

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[Aldora]

Competition not only gives birth to goals, but it helps stimulate the game. If you don't like or want competition then play Second Life. Social games don't need competition.

Does it really "only" have to be about competing with other Linkshells? I currently run a Linkshell, but not for competing with other Linkshells. I'm running The Dragons Aery as a social/mentor Linkshell. The reason why i say "social/mentor" Linkshell is because i was starting to see a trend arise where people were being denied access to (f.i) a party because they didn't have the right class skills or didn't have enough experience. You need to be in a party to gain experience in the first place. Next to that, a lot of people were confused and didn't know how to get started after creating a character.

Therefore i voluntered to open up my Linkshell to anyone. Both experienced and unexperienced. In order to help new players understanding the game (a little) better and point them in the right direction, but also to gather a group of like minded people so that they will be able to discover content themselves.

I don't think we need competition as a Linkshell to flourish. The poeple themselves should be the ones to decide if they want to be competative with/towards others. It should be their goal as a player, not necessarily the Linkshell itself. If we are talking about Linkshells needing a goal in order to flourish/work/survive/etc, then my Linkshell has only one basic goal... For people to come together and have fun while playing a game. May it be for end-game content, seeking guidance, helping other out, socializing or even playing solo... The definition of fun varies for each individual... If they want to compete in PvP or camp for NM's, by all means... I'd say to them "Go and have fun."

From the moment i opened up the doors to my linkshell (a little more then a month ago), 64 people have joined my "cause". It's true that not every single one is online at the same time, but that's not necessary. By average, 18 people are online at the same time as me. Everyone in the Linkshell likes being there (at least that is what they are sayin to me) and more people join every day. I even get cheers from people on the forums... If that is not a pat on the back, then i don't know what is... This is the only "reward" i could ever hope for.

If it weren't for my Linkshell officers and regulars, I could've never accomplished this... I would even dare say that i'm blessed by having people like them in my Linkshell.

I'm not competing with anyone. I'm just simply playing to have fun. That's all that really matters to me.

[Eldaena]

What you said just now has nothing to do with what you said earlier.

You said that there was "no gain" in doing the things Gath listed, yet, with what you just said contradicted that. by saying "me and my friends complete end game content" There's really no gain for killing stuff...or do you change your mind?

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

You're misinterpreting me. I meant there is no gain for the group that gets nothing because you decided to camp over them. If there was nothing to gain (not speaking monetary) from spending time with people, we wouldn't have friends. I'm saying your views on this are selfish. You're saying that your interest is in other linkshells, but I think this is actually something you want to just make it seem like you're better than others (more than you already do.) That you want LS competition means you just want to set yourself on a pedestal because you think you are, in fact, more important than others. In my mind, people are judged by the content of their character; not how many bosses they killed, the loot they got, or how many times they claimed over some other linkshell.

Contrary to your belief, all in-game currency's value is the same, even if it is sullied with your smudgy little lalafell fingerprints. =p

[Yelta_Sumasu]

I don't care to be competitive with other LSes. I would rather my LS set goals and achieve them and not worry overly about any other LS.

However I don't mind if people are competitive if that is what is fun for them as long as they aren't being a jerk about it.

I would much rather be cooperative.

[Gath]

You're misinterpreting me. I meant there is no gain for the group that gets nothing because you decided to camp over them. If there was nothing to gain (not speaking monetary) from spending time with people, we wouldn't have friends. I'm saying your views on this are selfish. You're saying that your interest is in other linkshells, but I think this is actually something you want to just make it seem like you're better than others (more than you already do.) That you want LS competition means you just want to set yourself on a pedestal because you think you are, in fact, more important than others. In my mind, people are judged by the content of their character; not how many bosses they killed, the loot they got, or how many times they claimed over some other linkshell.

Contrary to your belief, all in-game currency's value is the same, even if it is sullied with your smudgy little lalafell fingerprints. =p

Gath wanting to be on top is definitely something I want and I would be lying if I said otherwise, but I want others to compete for that spot. Having HNMs is good. You get items that you can sell which helps people out that are not part of the shell. Games run smoother with a few linkshells that supply the higher tier items that can be sold on the AH. I wouldn't call me selfish because I would rather see linkshells thrive than just exist. People are really only against HNMs because most are lazy and don't want to put the time and effort in obtaining them. People claim that bots stop this, this is very false. If you look at the system FFXI had later in the HNM game then you would notice the mobs spawned purple and if they were voked during this time they were locked out. Wandering HNMs also solve this problem. I really like HNMs myself, but if there were more goals and competition the game would be a lot more interesting with LS vs LS.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[Bowen]

Why do people still complain about how Gath types? It's not really that big a deal.

[HiirNoivl]

Gath wanting to be on top is definitely something I want and I would be lying if I said otherwise, but I want others to compete for that spot. Having HNMs is good. You get items that you can sell which helps people out that are not part of the shell. Games run smoother with a few linkshells that supply the higher tier items that can be sold on the AH. I wouldn't call me selfish because I would rather see linkshells thrive than just exist. People are really only against HNMs because most are lazy and don't want to put the time and effort in obtaining them. People claim that bots stop this, this is very false. If you look at the system FFXI had later in the HNM game then you would notice the mobs spawned purple and if they were voked during this time they were locked out. Wandering HNMs also solve this problem. I really like HNMs myself, but if there were more goals and competition the game would be a lot more interesting with LS vs LS.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Gath is quitting because his ego is not big enough?

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil. But Gath wants to make sure that you know it by beating you at everything.

[Seig345]

[...]I'm not talking about XI, I am talking about the game we are playing right now. Why can there not be a shell that can be spoken of because of what they do in this game and not another? Again, this falls down to the lack of implemented competition.

The competition I talk about needs to have some bearing in it. It needs to be a long term goal as a large group, not just 8 people, it needs to have something that makes people dreadfully want it, it needs to have a sense of accomplishment when it kill, accomplished, or even worked on together as a shell. Be it items from things like sea, sky, Limbus, or even Dynamis (Gath only uses these as an example) It creates a large sense of competition between shells.

One of the biggest things that showed who was the household names for shells on the servers were HNMs. I know a lot of people are against long spawn HNMs with low drop rates for the items, but it did create a large proportion of competition that keeps shells together for the most part. Shells did not last forever in the HNM world of XI, but, they did last a long times. Ranging from 8 months to 8 years. The competition kept shells and the friends they called themselves within together with a like goal. At first people do it for the items but it eventually grew into a bond that people cherished and eventually that greed would dissipate with the exception of a few really greedy people.

[...]

... First person... from Gath... *floored*