Increase Difficulty of Dungeons

[RokkuEkkusu]

Some dungeons in the past have been nerfed because people couldn't handle the sudden increase in damage. Stone Vigil is one of them. And mostly because it's required for story progression.

And increasing difficulty may be difficult across the board when you have people struggling on the following dungeons:

Stone Vigil [normal]
Dzemael Darkhold
Aurum Vale
Pharos Sirius [normal, even after the nerfs]
The Keeper of the Lake [mostly on the last boss]
Wanderer's Palace (Hard) with bad healers and tanks
The Vault
The Great Gubal Library [normal]
Bardam's Mettle
Doma Castle
Castrum Abania
The Burn

In short, average player skill may need to go up if you want dungeons to have increased difficulty.

[HeulGDarian]

Some dungeons in the past have been nerfed because people couldn't handle the sudden increase in damage. Stone Vigil is one of them. And mostly because it's required for story progression.

And increasing difficulty may be difficult across the board when you have people struggling on the following dungeons:

Stone Vigil [normal]
Dzemael Darkhold
Aurum Vale
Pharos Sirius [normal, even after the nerfs]
The Keeper of the Lake [mostly on the last boss]
Wanderer's Palace (Hard) with bad healers and tanks
The Vault
The Great Gubal Library [normal]
Bardam's Mettle
Doma Castle
Castrum Abania
The Burn

In short, average player skill may need to go up if you want dungeons to have increased difficulty.

and ofc the best way to do this is by making every job the same and easier \o/. oh w8

[Puremallace]

and ofc the best way to do this is by making every job the same and easier \o/. oh w8

People always complain about something until it is gone. Other MMO's out there are so far out of the reservation when it comes to class design you can barely recognize or understand how to even play classes anymore. I'll take FF14 design decisions ANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYday over some of the other options out there.

[HeulGDarian]

People always complain about something until it is gone. Other MMO's out there are so far out of the reservation when it comes to class design you can barely recognize or understand how to even play classes anymore. I'll take FF14 design decisions ANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYday over some of the other options out there.

ill humbly disagree, for 2 main reasons
1) this is the other extreme
2) there is not at least one single complex job per role for people to have fun . everything is accessible but a person wanting a job that isnt patronising him and handholding him , because they are already experienced and simply want something a cut above in challenge , isnt an unreasonable request to have.

[Puremallace]

ill humbly disagree, for 2 main reasons
1) this is the other extreme
2) there is not at least one single complex job per role for people to have fun . everything is accessible but a person wanting a job that isnt patronising him and handholding him , because they are already experienced and simply want something a cut above in challenge , isnt an unreasonable request to have.

So the problem since 2008 is the idea of meta. Even if Square Enix said ok guy you now have talent rows and in that talent row for Paladin you have 3 choices now where you could customize Prominence in various ways. What Square Enix understands and especially Yoshida is it is a false choice because there will always be a better option.

The only real question Square Enix needs to answer this difficulty question is if they increase the scale does it give a gear reward. Personally I see people farming hunts so why not a currency reward like Alegory?!??! PERSONALLY I wish they would design an entire cosmetic system around a Mythic system without gear rewards.

Some super exclusive titles, mounts and gear skins for someone who finishes the Ultimate version of each dungeon. In the end gear is just some item with higher numbers that top end people could care less about but some exclusive title means something to the people that want that content.

[HeulGDarian]

snipt.

youre misunderstanding something , job complexity/difficulty doesnt equate to dungeon/trial/savage/super savage difficulty. What i want is that jobs become more complex , stormblood to me was complex enough that i could enjoy doing dungeons without feeling bored even though dungeons are unquestionable the most boring content in the game. Now that the game has taken complexity away not just from my main job ,but also from the healers , the tanks , NIN , MCH , i simply cant enjoy the worst this game has to offer.
Its not about meta choices , even though the removal of mana shift , convalescense , ultimatum as well as all the other role abilities that got removed , simply sucks. Not to mention the reasoning they gave for their removal was that nobody used them, yet any coordianted group did use manashift and any heal and tank cooldown was in no way useless in fact it helped with their oh so beloved ACCESSIBILITY cause it made tanking easier. Also one of the stuff they gave in return was Sleep as a healer role class , which actually is useless. So whats all this about then? they didnt get removed cause they werent used cause manashift was used , they didnt get removed cause they were useless since all the cooldowns they removed were indeed usefull , they didnt get removed for accessibility cause those that got removed made stuff easier for new players . Well ill tell you why they got removed , they got removed just cause the devs wanted to remove them , to keep the game fresh as well as for the overall balance.
Ultimatum isnt needed anymore with the new aggro
Convalescense and the healer equivalent would be too broken since with good coordination and luck you could already hit 32 k crit addlo
mana shift got removed cause reasons. even with the homogenization of mana it would still be usefull
In the end the devs wanted to change the gameplay some people like it other people dont personally i dont count click one button, as gameplay . neither do i condone the removal of so much without giving anything back especially since it right out broke said jobs .

[Puremallace]

The place where complex and bloated crosses the line for various people. Some of the classes feel pretty good and others are hurting due to the GCD. I cannot disagree with much of anything you typed as atleast with someone who has an opinion you know how to correctly defend it.

I never understood why they dont just add a Mythic+ System

I created a thread listing out the problems with M+. Main issue is the gear and having to refarm it. No real reason they could not create a system specifically designed for speed running and not some alternate gearing system.

Blizzard seriously screwed up by making it an alternate gearing system.

[Vyrerus]

) there is not at least one single complex job per role for people to have fun . everything is accessible but a person wanting a job that isnt patronising him and handholding him , because they are already experienced and simply want something a cut above in challenge , isnt an unreasonable request to have.

See the thing is, is they do make jobs like this. Hard to master, hard to learn, and hard to play. At least in the past they did. Problem was, SE didn't want to make them as strong as other jobs that were easier to play. OG DRK vs. WAR for example. OG. DRK had a lot going for it. It took a lot of skill to play well, a lot more coordination, and it was a lot of fun. But as far as effectiveness goes, it still lost to WAR in DPS, in overall mitigation, and had an inferior invuln to boot. It edged out PLD only due to fight design revolving around it, and its high DPS...

So the general consensus became, "Why play something that takes a lot of effort if it's not going to outperform something that doesn't?" And SE won't make jobs like that again because...

1) They actually stink at the balancing act, that's why they keep pressing to homogenize. They basically want people to play jobs based on flavor, not effectiveness.

2) They are unwilling to make jobs that are outright better than old jobs, because despite the fact that anyone can level anything, people stick with their favorites and don't want their favorites to be bad. So they can never release anything that is too good, even if it's complex. Which is what lead to how bad all the Heavensward jobs were at their release, vs. how absurdly good SAM and RDM were at their release to now GNB and DNC with both basically being perceived as great, but neither actually being so outlandishly great nor complex that they suffer the problems of old.

And the real kicker is, even with how easy and samey they've made just about everything, people still say it's too hard to learn.