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  1. #11
    Player
    shao32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    arcadis
    Posts
    2,067
    Character
    Shao Kuraisenshi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    Not really, I did not misunderstand you. I'm well aware of what went on with tanks in the last few years. I'll say this again, the class design can be so amazing and satisfying and people will still leave the class for a far worse designed class that if it remotely performs better.
    And? buff the jobs thats the thing, balance is about numbers not gameplay design at the end just buff the job number, don't give it inner release.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    Paladin would be the best case and point, why did no one play a paladin in HW? Because it was far inferior to the WAR or DRK.
    PLD not only was the worst mitigation tank in HW and do lower dps, his gameplay was boring as hell, was only royal authority and goring blade all day, compared to the complex WAR and DRK gameplay the job hardest part was fight the monotomy, and after that they could buffed his defensive kit and his overall dps and solved the balanced problems easily without touching the gameplay, again a job performing worse than others it's a question of numbers not design.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    Every class should be able to do the same but it shouldn't be an exact copy. Got it, there are still numerous distinctive abilities that set the jobs apart from each other. While there may be similarities, that doesn't mean that it's exactly the same. Yes, you have a cooldown that allows you to burst, woopdie do. Try to balance 4 classes without any form of homogenization or when they have these "Job identifying specialties" which usually bottles down "War dishes out most dmg", "PLD shields the party", "DRK is best in magic environments", "GNB does best in... who cares he has a gunblade".
    you keep going into job specialitys WAR doing most damage, DRK magic beast ect ect ect and that's have nothing to do wich what i said.

    example here, SAM and BLM, both jobs selfish high dps, gameplays can't be more diferent betwen this 2 and are pretty well balanced right now whats your point now?, homogenization should always come over job performance not job gameplay about how they archive that damage, or mitigation or support the party wich is where current tanks desings fails.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    No, WAR's where crying about not having a party-wide CD because their dmg wasn't far superior to PLD or DRK anymore. So, SE gave them a party-wide CD although it doesn't make much sense but hey. Let's give the best tanks out there some more utility to really solidify themselves in the meta.

    I hardly saw a WAR crying about job identity back then.
    WARs complaing that they didn't have any kind of utility no not having a raid mitigation tool and still despite they get a raid shield like PLD it's works way diferent from divine shield with is own perks that make the skill unique and not being superior to DV despite being the same kind of utility wich is the point here.

    now compared this to the lazy implementation of dark missionary and heart of light both being a 15% magic damage mitigation with the same recast oferring nothing to the identity of DRK and GNB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    But ok, let's establish for now that players all want a Sheltron-like ability and something that encompasses the entire party like Divine Veil. But WAR and DRK has to hit the hardest because they don't have a shield, it only makes sense!

    So, PLD gets his combo's and RC, but WAR gets a single target support skill and DRK can now use a divine veil-like shield.

    Odd, so, PLD gets nothing... PLD had no AoE mind. But that was fine in actual content like savage or ultimate. But let's forget for a moment about their lack of AoE abilities.

    Why should the other jobs with their superior rotations and intricateness require job identifying abilities from the paladin? Just let it sink in from a moment.
    gameplay diversity perhaps? not every job needs to be a complex machine to archive great results and having diferent gameplays you could easily target diferent players demographics, WAR and DRK being more intricate with they gameplay in they orn way make them unique, PLD being less complex and still archiving the same result make it a perfect choice for ppl who want something more simple to manage, if you make everything the same then you make most of the players demographic have nothing to play wich is as a example a problem for me right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    There are indeed different ways to go about class identity, but it's impossible to create fights that balanced for all 4 classes. The way CD's work, the way their dps works, etc etc. That's why homogenization is a necessity in the name of balance and accessibility for all jobs. Currently, tanks are in the best position that they have ever been as you won't decline a job, you'll decline the player when forming groups. And that is good game design.
    Tell that to the entire dps roster, each one being complete unique, some having burst tipe of damage, others having more sustained damage, having high personal dps or having low personal dps but ofering powerful raid buffs and they still are there, more or less pretty well balanced and no fights desing offer a problem to any of them.

    Tanks are in the worst position ever, playing the same the role doesn't really offer gameplay variance, the party contribution it's laugable and our personal mechanics are non existent, we are the most brain dead role of the game right now and this didn't help to raise the tank population numbers.

    i played DRK the entire SB, you know the expansion where the job was the worst at dps, mitigation and utility, and the entire 1º tier i did it with pugs all the time from aletier to neo exdeath and i never being rejected for being a DRK not even i find my static later one, no objections so this is mostly a over exageration.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithia View Post
    Do you hear yourself? When you can out gear the content you can sit in tank stance and let the party do the dps for you.

    We aren't talking about dungeons when it comes down to job accessibility, we are talking about actual endgame content like Savage raids or Ultimates. More people then ever got into raiding, which is healthy for the game! Why can't you understand that the previous iterations of tanks was needlessly complex and the only result was that PLD got shafted in favor of the big damage dealers.
    accessibility to savage and ultimate it's a nonsense, the western playerbase are still the one with so low clear rates despite making everything brain dead, ppl getting in to savage it's a problem of western mentality not the game or the jobs, ppl only want fast satisfaction and don't put any real effort most of the time to get things and thats not a problem of the game, if they make everything more accesible then stops being called hard dontent.

    tanks wasn't needlessly complex at all, they didn't require more time than a DPS to master the job and the complexity of the role was exagerated, heck even now when veterans complain about how easy and braindead it's everything most ppl still belive tanking is hard, so they didn't fix anything, they just make things way worse, even the JP are complaing that the quality of the role it's pretty low right now.
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    Last edited by shao32; 06-26-2020 at 12:15 AM.