Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Goji1639]

I don’t have rescue on my bars as a healer, and single pulls don’t bother me, but that being said, if the healer is making you pull, then you probably can pull more and be fine. It’s a tanks role to pull and hold aggro, they have more than enough defensive CDs to handle two or more packs. If you only pull one pack at a time, you don’t even need to use your defensive CDs, which are like 1/3 of all your buttons as a tank. That’s like a DPS who only uses half of their rotation, or a healer that doesn’t DPS when everyone is at full HP and safe.

You’re only partly doing your role.

Assuming a healer can handle a wall to wall pull is a gambit. I've gone literally 15-20 seconds without receiving a single heal on a wall to wall; if I wasn't severely overgeared I'd be dead. Healer should state exactly what they can handle at the beginning of the run if they have specific expectations. Otherwise the tank sets the pace, period.

That's all beside the point, though. Rescue shouldn't exist as it does.

[NessaWyvern]

Assuming a healer can handle a wall to wall pull is a gambit. I've gone literally 15-20 seconds without receiving a single heal on a wall to wall; if I wasn't severely overgeared I'd be dead. Healer should state exactly what they can handle at the beginning of the run if they have specific expectations. Otherwise the tank sets the pace, period.

What you do as tank, is say at the start of the dungeon “I’m going to do large pulls” and then go ahead and do it. If you die, then you adjust the speed. While leveling the four tanks to 80 in dungeons, I didn’t have any complaints when I did this, and I didn’t get yanked around by healers.
Rescue can be a pretty useful skill though, I have had healers yank me out of areas that would have killed me, and those healers get my coms for it.

[Goji1639]

What you do as tank, is say at the start of the dungeon “I’m going to do large pulls” and then go ahead and do it. If you die, then you adjust the speed. While leveling the four tanks to 80 in dungeons, I didn’t have any complaints when I did this, and I didn’t get yanked around by healers.
Rescue can be a pretty useful skill though, I have had healers yank me out of areas that would have killed me, and those healers get my coms for it.

So, you say you're going to large pull, do it, then die to start off every run. Sounds like fun.

If I'm barely ilvl appropriate for the dungeon and not familiar with it I'm probably going to pull small. Tank sets the pace; that's just how it is. If the healer doesn't like the pace he can speak up, and if he asks for big pulls he'd better not suck.

[NessaWyvern]

So, you say you're going to large pull, do it, then die to start off every run. Sounds like fun.

If I'm barely ilvl appropriate for the dungeon and not familiar with it I'm probably going to pull small. Tank sets the pace; that's just how it is. If the healer doesn't like the pace he can speak up, and if he asks for big pulls he'd better not suck.

BAHAHAHA, maybe every 1/5 runs at the most, plus it gives the healer in the dungeon some good practice with their healing abilities. And if the healer isn’t comfortable with big pulls, they usually tell you right after you say that you’ll do big pulls.

Believe it or not, the entire team sets the pace. If the DPS don’t do enough damage, healers run out if MP, everyone dies thus setting the pace. If healers don’t do enough healing, everyone dies, also setting the pace. If the tank doesn’t use CDs on large pulls, everyone dies, or pulls small, making the dungeon take longer, setting the pace.

Your mindset right now, isn’t exactly a team player mindset.
I pUlL hOwEvEr MaNy I wAnT! I’m tHe TaNk.
Seeing this always makes me cringe.

[Rilifane]

Assuming that's not going to happen, I've been trying to think about how I should handle it if it ever happened to me again

Simple: ask them to stop. If they don't: report them and try a votekick. If it fails, leave.

The intention notwithstanding, the execution of that ability is horrible. It's a troll button.

I understand that healers get bored and want stuff to do, so changing the ability might be preferable to removing it. Just turn it into a long CD single target barrier healers can cast on the party. That maintains the general intention while removing the terribly thought out, OBVIOUSLY exploitable mechanic.

Rescue is intended to safe people from certain death by pulling them to a safe spot and you couldn't make a barrier strong enough to survive one-shot mechanics without it getting exploited and leading to a whole lot of balancing issues.
Other uses include, but are not limited to:

• pulling stack marks into the group or pulling people into your stack mark
• pulling people into healer bubbles or heal range in general
• pulling people out of animation lock
• pulling people who lost control over their character to safety to prevent them killing themselves (like on Ruby Weapon gaze)

Someone stepped on your toes; deal with it like a grown adult but don't throw a fit on the forum for a skill to get removed. It has lots of uses and plenty of people regulary use it well.
Since you didn't explicitely state that the tank who got pulled was annoyed by it and spoke up, consider that it might have been a premade. It's pretty common for a tank/ healer premade to speed up pulls this way or with the healer pulling and dropping them off in the tank's aoe.

In good groups rescue isn't necessary. In bad groups full of well intended people it's almost always used wrong, and causes more problems. It's a useless skill; if you see it used in a group it's almost always because the healer is bored, and while I'm sure it's fun for them it's not fun for the people they use it on. There's absolutely no reason for it to stay as it is.

Escpecially good groups can make very good use of it and it's far from useless. Asking for a complete overhaul of a skill just because you can't use it advantageous or like it is just petty.

Assuming a healer can handle a wall to wall pull is a gambit. I've gone literally 15-20 seconds without receiving a single heal on a wall to wall; if I wasn't severely overgeared I'd be dead. Healer should state exactly what they can handle at the beginning of the run if they have specific expectations. Otherwise the tank sets the pace, period.

That's all beside the point, though. Rescue shouldn't exist as it does.

Most important question: did you die?
If not, there is no issue. Healers adjust according to incoming damage. If they have an overgeared tank, tiny pulls or the tank has CD timing on point, they will naturally heal less.
Besides, Excod, Bene and ED encourage letting the tank drop.
And I repeat: if you didn't die, there wasn't a problem.
Had many PLD use clemency when they dropped below 50% so I didn't bother to heal too. They were already healed, why overheal?
But I bet many of them thought "I would have died had I not healed myself! Stupid, awful healer not even being able to handle small pulls!"
No, bud. No wouldn't.

[ForteNightshade]

Assuming a healer can handle a wall to wall pull is a gambit. I've gone literally 15-20 seconds without receiving a single heal on a wall to wall; if I wasn't severely overgeared I'd be dead. Healer should state exactly what they can handle at the beginning of the run if they have specific expectations. Otherwise the tank sets the pace, period.

That's all beside the point, though. Rescue shouldn't exist as it does.

You do realize the healer likely knows that and is purposely taking advantage of your higher ilvl, yes? I do this constantly with tanks because I have a bevy of abilities ready to shoot their HP back up in seconds. This doesn't include Benediction or Essential—both of which loss value if you don't allow the tank's HP to plummet.

And no, the tank does not set the pace. This mindset needs to die out. If you have an undergeared healer or DPS, their inability to heal or kill things as quickly means they've determined the pace. Regardless, tanks aren't special. You're simply one of four people wanting to get through the dungeon. If three other people want to go fast and you're refusing to pull more out of sheer stubbornness, you're being selfish. And putting your preference above the majority.

Dungeons are a complete joke nowadays, especially Expert. Unless people are severely undergeared, there isn't a single dungeon where a double pull will hurt you.

Honestly, why not take it as a challenge? The healer or DPS has given you free reign to push yourself. If you can't handle it, well, it's their fault for pulling more. But if you can, you now know you're capable of more than you thought. It's essentially a riskless gamble.

Thing is I don't want to get the DPS killed; in a perfect situation I let the healer die, then pick up the adds, or let them reset, then clean up. I could easily do that on my Paladin but it's trickier with a Dark Knight.

Bluntly stated, if I were the DPS I would vote kick you for that stunt. All you've accomplished is making the dungeon take longer because you're being petty. Now if you asked the healer to stop and they kept doing it anyway, that's a different story. But to just revenge kill them as a sort of "lesson." Yeah, I'd rather wait for a new tank, personally.

[Goji1639]

You do realize the healer likely knows that and is purposely taking advantage of your higher ilvl, yes? I do this constantly with tanks because I have a bevy of abilities ready to shoot their HP back up in seconds. This doesn't include Benediction or Essential—both of which loss value if you don't allow the tank's HP to plummet.

And no, the tank does not set the pace. This mindset needs to die out. If you have an undergeared healer or DPS, their inability to heal or kill things as quickly means they've determined the pace. Regardless, tanks aren't special. You're simply one of four people wanting to get through the dungeon. If three other people want to go fast and you're refusing to pull more out of sheer stubbornness, you're being selfish. And putting your preference above the majority.

Dungeons are a complete joke nowadays, especially Expert. Unless people are severely undergeared, there isn't a single dungeon where a double pull will hurt you.

Honestly, why not take it as a challenge? The healer or DPS has given you free reign to push yourself. If you can't handle it, well, it's their fault for pulling more. But if you can, you now know you're capable of more than you thought. It's essentially a riskless gamble.



Bluntly stated, if I were the DPS I would vote kick you for that stunt. All you've accomplished is making the dungeon take longer because you're being petty. Now if you asked the healer to stop and they kept doing it anyway, that's a different story. But to just revenge kill them as a sort of "lesson." Yeah, I'd rather wait for a new tank, personally.

In those situations where I'm waiting nearly half a minute for heals I usually end up having to keep my self alive with Clemency until the healer wakes up. If that had happened with my Dark Knight on a wall to wall pull I'd be dead no matter what my ilvl. There are PLENTY of healers out there who can't handle wall to wall pulls, so it's always a gambit.

Regardless, if they want me to pull big and they ASK in chat then no problem. Using rescue is absolutely disrespectful, dismissive and rude; so I'll always treat it as if I've just been insulted. If I feel like I can finish the pull without the healer I'll probably let him die, and if the group doesn't like that they're free to kick me. As a Paladin I could handle most pulls without the healer.

If use of Rescue is clearly an accident or well intended THEN I'll politely ask them to not touch me with Rescue again, and hopefully that would be the end of it.

[EaMett]

Assuming a healer can handle a wall to wall pull is a gambit. I've gone literally 15-20 seconds without receiving a single heal on a wall to wall; if I wasn't severely overgeared I'd be dead.

That's exactly what they should be doing. If they can do that consistently they're a great healer, tell me who it was so I can congratulate him/her.

Late to the party but rescue is a good skill. I've rarely seen it used for trolling other than amongst friends. But I can't count how many times I've seen it used properly. Sure, sometimes, due to lag and server ticks, etc.. the good intentions still lead to a missed use of the skill but that's part of learning, trial and error.
Do people troll sometimes? I'm sure they do. Just like people troll with shirk and other skills. Doesn't mean the skills are bad, need to be reworked, or even removed. By those standards, we would need to remove all AoE casts out of combat... How many people troll others with holy in main city hubs.

Also, tanks don't set the pace in dungeons. Healers do. If a healer pulls you into a pack of mobs, it's rude, they could just ask you to pull more. But they pace the run. As a tank you have literally nothing more to do, you just do your aoe rotation as per usual, you do your mitigation as per usual, you dodge a tad more. More mobs only really affect the healer. If the healer wants to go pull the next pack and bring it to you, their choice. There' a reason veteran tanks usually don't care much for extra pulls. As long as people bring the mobs to them all it does is make the run faster.
If I get yanked into more mobs, I understand "you can pull more, I got you" and I do so. End of the story, nobody needs to get their panties in a bunch, everyone is happy, I don't need to put more effort into it. 100% win win.