Geomancer

[Archwizard]

Again, if Geomancer is so similar to White Mage that they can't function in the same role then it shouldn't be added.

Based on the context of GucciSan's post, your response reads as though you're saying "If Geomancer is too (aesthetically or mechanically) similar to WHM, a healer, then it shouldn't be added to the game period, even as a DPS."

Which... has no other way to be read, but I can't wait for you to tell me I'm misinterpreting you after this.

Frankly, I find that entirely unreasonable of a conclusion, especially when you're simultaneously arguing that otherwise, there would be no reason not to add it as a healer. But you're totally not advocating for it as a healer. In fact you're not advocating for anything at all!

Lemme give some examples for why this premise is wrong:

• Red Mage and Scholar have each been classical mixes of Black Mage and White Mage, with Scholar leaning heavily on magic and Red Mage balancing it with melee. As a result, Red Mage's brand of magic shares aesthetic similarities with each of the other jobs listed, but is mechanically separated enough to fit in its own niche as a caster DPS.
• Samurai and Ninja both are melee DPS jobs with heavy Eastern themes, but mechanically and lore-wise have significant enough differences to justify separate positions within the roster.
• At a stretch, one could also argue that Dark Knight's form of magic appears to have the same properties as Scholar's attack spells, being focused on dark energy, decay, and the disruption of biological processes. Similarly you could argue that Bard and Dancer both utilize entertainment to channel buff effects, and Gunbreaker and Machinist both utilize ballistic weapons, with Machinist even giving up reload mechanics to Gunbreaker.
• Oh, and of course, Scholar and Summoner each explicitly utilize the same properties for their respective familiars/Egis and share similar mechanics, but are separated by role, exactly like what we've been saying with regards to parallels between GEO and WHM.

As well I feel like you don't realize

Based on your overuse of this phrase whenever you post and your contrarian attitude throughout this thread, you appear to have either a very high opinion of yourself, a very low opinion of everyone else, or both.

Perhaps if everyone else is "missing the point" of the things you say, maybe consider the common factor is... you?

[BasicBlake]

snip

It's not worth it, he has stated numerous times that he "doesn't care the role that it is" he's just here to argue whatever statement you say. He's here to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking.

No matter who tries to explain what people mean by class fantasy and mechanics he will just say "I don't see it that way so it doesn't exist". They could add the 4th caster who's main mechanic revolved around carbuncle and he'd say that's fine because summoner have the other egis.

ANYWAY. I'm more interested in talking about Geomancer, not arguing with Mirron about semantics and definitions and his perceptions of older FF games.

Has anyone found out why Kyo only focuses on wind and water? His school for Geomancy is now functional and he is teaching them in the art of "Wind and Water" only. I guess it could come down to mainland Geomancy vs Hingashi but it seems odd for a class so focused on only three elements as is, to have an npc open a school only focusing on two of them.

I have been looking all over but I can't actually find anything but it's really irritating me that we have no explanation (yet).

[Archwizard]

Has anyone found out why Kyo only focuses on wind and water? His school for Geomancy is now functional and he is teaching them in the art of "Wind and Water" only. I guess it could come down to mainland Geomancy vs Hingashi but it seems odd for a class so focused on only three elements as is, to have an npc open a school only focusing on two of them.

I have been looking all over but I can't actually find anything but it's really irritating me that we have no explanation (yet).

Because Geomancer's Japanese name is Feng Shui Soldier, and Feng Shui literally translates to "wind-water".

I haven't heard anything about him only teaching the arts of Wind and Water though, just that "of Wind and Water" is his title.

[BasicBlake]

Because Geomancer's Japanese name is Feng Shui Soldier, and Feng Shui literally translates to "wind-water".

So the Stone part of the barrier of Kugane, them being masters of wind, water and stone in the lore book, the stone portion of Swallow's Compass was just a red herring?

I just found it weird that something that is said to focus so much on the three elements has an npc focusing on two.

[Archwizard]

So the Stone part of the barrier of Kugane, them being masters of wind, water and stone in the lore book, the stone portion of Swallow's Compass was just a red herring?

I just found it weird that something that is said to focus so much on the three elements has an npc focusing on two.

Sure, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that he wouldn't teach them Earth magic as well? He seems to utilize all three elements himself, and I just figured his English title was a result of direct (albeit flowery) translation.

[BasicBlake]

Sure, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that he wouldn't teach them Earth magic as well? He seems to utilize all three elements himself, and I just figured his English title was a result of direct (albeit flowery) translation.

I had just watched the Astro 80 quest last night where he says the line "something something I am teaching them the ways of wind and water" which is probably just translation side. He's probably Kyo of Feng Shui and teaching them Feng Shui at the school.

I rewatched Foxfire to make sure he actually uses Qi of Earth I was second guessing myself. xD Also while watching we see he uses two different elemental spells Qi of Wind and Qi or Earth, has a heal Qi of Water and what looks to be an instant cast after some Winds that he casts? I could have been seeing things because youtube is only so great a resource when it's a job quest and they are focused on fighting and you're trying to watch what the guy with the pink boots is doing.

[MirronTulaxia]

Snip.

1. My stance on Job Fantasy, insofar as you guys keep treating it as a thing, is that if any job is too similar to another, regardless of role, then there is an issue. I don't believe Geomancer is too similar to White Mage. They could both be Healer, Tank, DPS, whatever, I would not consider them the same thing. If they are, then they shouldn't be added. Because I don't believe any job is to similar to another regardless of role, and I would rather not see that change.

2. I mean, you are misinterpreting it because you're fixating on specifically Geomancer as a healer when I don't see the job fantasy as dependent on roles.

3. It's perfectly reasonable. If a job is so shallow it can't stand on its own two legs then it shouldn't be added. Add a job that has more depth. I don't agree with the stance that Geomancer is shallow, but if that's the stance you guys want to take then so be it. As for what I'm advocating for I've said it several times. I even gave you a specific post that you could check. If you can't be bothered to read what's being said then you're really just doing what you're accusing me of.

4a. Red Mage and Scholar have a separate job fantasy that is independent of role, so I'm not sure how this is proving my premise wrong. Though Scholar is not exactly consistent. One need only look at TA2 to see that calling it "Black and White Magic" isn't an absolute.

4b. Samurai and Ninja are as different as White Mage and Geomancer to me, so not sure the argument you're making makes sense.

4c. Again, all of these jobs have a unique core aspect that differentiates them and would be the same regardless of the role they're in. Like Bard and Dancer, which are both in the same role (and even same subcategory of the role).

4d. And as I said, Scholar and Summoner represent different job fantasies, so even if Scholar was a Caster or Summoner a Healer they are different things and can stand on their own just fine.

5. Saying I feel something is not the same as saying it's absolutely true. And none of what I'm doing is opposing the popular option for what it is. Though combined with this and your last sentence it seems like you're just making an appeal to popularity.