Geomancer

[BasicBlake]

I mean, there has been a dedicated healing Ninja in the past (Izayoi), and Monks do have Chakra. But my point is just that they have pointed out connections to other healing jobs. Could they be a Caster? Definitely. My point is that they could be a Healer too. So far nothing rules them out as one.

He is talking about FFXIV though. In certain missions people like Yugiri get some form of heal to help you along through the quest, not talking about setting the precedent for a dedicated ninja healer. The astro quest lines did talk about how they had some similarities, but nowhere in the game or books compared Geomancer to conjurer, that is purely player talk on the forums. Levava has spent how many expansions now, and Eorzea years around conjurers and white mages, yet she refers to Kyokohu's school of magic as it's own. Not as a Far Eastern Conjurer, and not as an offshoot of Astrologians.

Could they make this the first ever healing Geomancer? Yes. Would it be dumb, also yes.

[MirronTulaxia]

He is talking about FFXIV though. In certain missions people like Yugiri get some form of heal to help you along through the quest, not talking about setting the precedent for a dedicated ninja healer. The astro quest lines did talk about how they had some similarities, but nowhere in the game or books compared Geomancer to conjurer, that is purely player talk on the forums. Levava has spent how many expansions now, and Eorzea years around conjurers and white mages, yet she refers to Kyokohu's school of magic as it's own. Not as a Far Eastern Conjurer, and not as an offshoot of Astrologians.

Could they make this the first ever healing Geomancer? Yes. Would it be dumb, also yes.

I never said they were a Far Eastern Conjurer. I'm quite positive it's a separate thing from the rest. My point is simply that there is enough to say "they could be something else". From a more meta standpoint the change of White Mage makes me suspect it as well. And it wouldn't be "dumb" just because you like something else.

[BasicBlake]

I never said they were a Far Eastern Conjurer. I'm quite positive it's a separate thing from the rest. My point is simply that there is enough to say "they could be something else". From a more meta standpoint the change of White Mage makes me suspect it as well. And it wouldn't be "dumb" just because you like something else.

Taking away animations from one healer to put it on another healer with the same animations is what I would consider dumb, nothing to do with my own personal bias.

[SeikishiYuuki]

I never said they were a Far Eastern Conjurer. I'm quite positive it's a separate thing from the rest. My point is simply that there is enough to say "they could be something else". From a more meta standpoint the change of White Mage makes me suspect it as well. And it wouldn't be "dumb" just because you like something else.

It doesn't make sense to chop one job in half and make it too less unique jobs. There's a ton of lore and in game content to make Geo a unique caster dps is my point. It'd be totally wasted to make it a healer when there's probably a good 2-5 better options for a healer. There aren't a lot of good caster DPS options left and none with as much established in universe that are coded DPS.

[MirronTulaxia]

It doesn't make sense to chop one job in half and make it too less unique jobs. There's a ton of lore and in game content to make Geo a unique caster dps is my point. It'd be totally wasted to make it a healer when there's probably a good 2-5 better options for a healer. There aren't a lot of good caster DPS options left and none with as much established in universe that are coded DPS.

There really aren't any other healer options that aren't White Magic related other than Chemist. And of those White Magic related jobs they're either White Mage+ or mixed with Black Magic, neither of which really makes it a "better" healer option than Geomancer. What is better or worse is ultimately subjective, and at least for me I wouldn't consider Chemist as a Healer better than Geomancer.

And none of what I'm proposing is taking the same animations, simply the aesthetics. White Mages changes make sense in this light. Otherwise it just seems somewhat arbitrary.

[Archwizard]

There really aren't any other healer options that aren't White Magic related other than Chemist. And of those White Magic related jobs they're either White Mage+ or mixed with Black Magic, neither of which really makes it a "better" healer option than Geomancer. What is better or worse is ultimately subjective, and at least for me I wouldn't consider Chemist as a Healer better than Geomancer.

And none of what I'm proposing is taking the same animations, simply the aesthetics. White Mages changes make sense in this light. Otherwise it just seems somewhat arbitrary.

I mean.
Elements are fairly arbitrary in 14. Aesthetics are arbitrary by definition.

Prior to 14 the only consistency with magic was "Black Mage gets Fire, Ice, and Lightning, White Mage gets Holy and Cure." There are as many entries with Aero and Stone classed as Black Magic as there are classed as White Magic, and since they're all just "Magic" damage to a healer (most classes in general, really, aside from BLM and BLU, since only those two treat elements as mechanical differences) the actual choice of elements available to the healer is purely cosmetic.

Meanwhile, there is a logical fallacy in assuming that just because something was "taken away" from one job, it'll go to another job. It could be gone simply because the devs don't want anyone to have it, or at least don't care enough to keep it.

[BasicBlake]

I mean.
Elements are fairly arbitrary in 14. Aesthetics are arbitrary by definition.

Prior to 14 the only consistency with magic was "Black Mage gets Fire, Ice, and Lightning, White Mage gets Holy and Cure." There are as many entries with Aero and Stone classed as Black Magic as there are classed as White Magic, and since they're all just "Magic" damage to a healer (most classes in general, really, aside from BLM and BLU, since only those two treat elements as mechanical differences) the actual choice of elements available to the healer is purely cosmetic.

Meanwhile, there is a logical fallacy in assuming that just because something was "taken away" from one job, it'll go to another job. It could be gone simply because the devs don't want anyone to have it, or at least don't care enough to keep it.

You’re treating whole elements like slashing damage or piercing damage. Or hell even the ability Time Dilation. Stuff like that, sure, I can see taken out because it was causing issues, etc. But to say it’s logical fallacy is a bit condescending to presume that three major elements are taken away (In a game where elements and their aspects Aether is kind of the whole backstory of a game IE: the calamities) when they were a major identity to one class and the major identity of another slowly being implemented into the story.

[BasicBlake]

There really aren't any other healer options that aren't White Magic related other than Chemist. And of those White Magic related jobs they're either White Mage+ or mixed with Black Magic, neither of which really makes it a "better" healer option than Geomancer. What is better or worse is ultimately subjective, and at least for me I wouldn't consider Chemist as a Healer better than Geomancer.

And none of what I'm proposing is taking the same animations, simply the aesthetics. White Mages changes make sense in this light. Otherwise it just seems somewhat arbitrary.

I feel like what he could be saying is, wouldn’t that feel lazy? Let’s take Aero/Stone away from White Mage and give it to the other magic user that has comparisons to conjurer. So now you have NEW Stone/Aero healer alongside OLD Stone/Aero healer. True you could change the aesthetics of it, but at the end of the day that would end up White Mage 1 and White Mage 2, I feel like Yoshi wouldn’t even waste the developers time on that. At least switch the roles!

[SeikishiYuuki]

I feel like what he could be saying is, wouldn’t that feel lazy? Let’s take Aero/Stone away from White Mage and give it to the other magic user that has comparisons to conjurer. So now you have NEW Stone/Aero healer alongside OLD Stone/Aero healer. True you could change the aesthetics of it, but at the end of the day that would end up White Mage 1 and White Mage 2, I feel like Yoshi wouldn’t even waste the developers time on that. At least switch the roles!

Yea I think it's definitely hard to create a new healer with a strong identity, since WHM has been the core of things healing related forever. You could say though the removal of the elements lends to either side, a new healer using those elements or a Geomancer dps with them. But coupled with what has become fairly expansive lore or caster Geomancers it just looks more and more like the aim is give us a Caster DPS Geo and a new stand alone healer. Though Yoshi could always curve ball us and give the other or neither.

[Archwizard]

Yea I think it's definitely hard to create a new healer with a strong identity, since WHM has been the core of things healing related forever. You could say though the removal of the elements lends to either side, a new healer using those elements or a Geomancer dps with them. But coupled with what has become fairly expansive lore or caster Geomancers it just looks more and more like the aim is give us a Caster DPS Geo and a new stand alone healer. Though Yoshi could always curve ball us and give the other or neither.

If GEO were to be released, I think there's some strong mechanical potential for GEO to be introduced as a DPS job, since at least as a DPS (much like with BLM) there's reason to distinguish between its elemental spells -- such as having phases in its rotation -- and there would be no complaints about putting Quake, Tornado or Flood in the hands of a caster.
Meanwhile, there's historically little backing for GEO as a healer across the series, at best having support potential alongside a plethora of damage effects. If I remember correctly, Kyohuko only ever casts Qi of Earth and Qi of Wind to attack, and I didn't see any heals from him (... though being that it was a healer questline, it would have been redundant if they gave you an NPC follower just to heal you, wouldn't it?). Sure, he enchants barriers around the city, but that's along the lines of the quest text saying that a BLM can rewrite people's memories, make golems, or polymorph an entire city -- not evidence of their actual capabilities as a combat class. (Plus it would be, what, placing a number of static GTAoE barriers and heals like Asylum and Sacred Soil? ... anything actually new and useful against a boss?)

As far as what the next healer would be, I'd be happy to see them get creative with a new job. As long as its healing model isn't another clone of WHM or SCH.