Why can't we just have combo chains?

[DPZ2]

Wouldn't combo chains break the ability to use OGCD abilities? You'd be locked into the chain for, what, 7.5 seconds?

[Esmoire]

PLD is a bit egregious, though sadly this solution would do little for its control problems. It basically has two DPS cooldowns for its magical and physical rotations, which is great and important to its flavour, though the designer got a little greedy with the buttons. You can only use Mom's Confetti in the Kitty Cat state, which is a minute CD, which means a button that is a minute CD has another button you can only use once a minute. Combine this with Atonement, one of the most dumb and unnecessary additions to the job this expansion, as if the designer went "Hmm, WAR and DRK get a buff that has them hit the same button five times in a row; we'll go with the digest version". Feels like one or both should be context-sensitive buttons somewhere if they have context-sensitive requirements and you'd never want to use Atonement during Kitty Cat unless you are utterly wasted. Though that's kind of just a PLD design problem more than something combo buttons could resolve.

Wouldn't combo chains break the ability to use OGCD abilities? You'd be locked into the chain for, what, 7.5 seconds?

No. You still have to press a button three times, but the state isn't lost unless the combo is broken like it would be in gameplay as it is now. You just weave them between the attacks as you would normally, like PvP.

[Daniolaut]

Please implement this in the game for all jobs that have combo chains, it is already in the game but only for story fights for what ever reason. It was the same for Hien, when you controlled him against Zenos.

This comes up a lot. I think you'll get people who want compound buttons, and people who want to invalidate it, with a lot of false dichotomies thrown every way, people will say something really dumb like "It will make the game too easy”.

No.

Why?

1.Because it will not work.

2. It also would severely strict the development team from creating unique and fun jobs.

Binding 3 actions of a combo first off only “works” in concept for melee.

This ignores casters and ranged classes.

That’s the first example of it not working.

Second:
Monk.
Monk does not press 1,2,3. Then 4,5,6.

Monk is more “complex” than that.

This also would not work for PLD, WAR, and more Importantly what about DRG? Would DRG be 1,1,1 then 2,2 then... what? Or would it be forever pressing 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1?

Speaking of complexity. If all combo based jobs somehow were capable of being confined to this set up, it would severely restrict the development team from creating fun jobs.

For example.

Low level combat is already dreadfully boring. Find any comment section where people say low level combat in XIV is too boring and everyone responds saying “wait till x level things get much more fast paced.”


Speaking in this matter....

Square-Enix already dumbed down the jobs and gutted a ton of actions.

Gutting the jobs more to fit this mold would homogenize them even further.

“But I works for NPC battles and PvP”

Of course it does. NPC battles are not complex in the least. Setting NPC battles as the bar for complexity and difficulty.... is absurd.

As for PVP, PVP encounters do not last 14 minutes of you hitting a single enemy with a ton of mechanics. They are typically short quick battles or encounters.

Seriously. If you put just a little thought into this, it does not work.

Instead put some time into setting up your hotbars to make sense.

I am capable of making all my hotbars flow smoothly while also matching them up based on role, as well as being on gamepad and also not using expanded hotbars.

So if I’m capable, you are too. It’s already extremely easy and simplistic.....

[Kuroka]

No. You still have to press a button three times, but the state isn't lost unless the combo is broken like it would be in gameplay as it is now. You just weave them between the attacks as you would normally, like PvP.

Which would free up more slots for other stuff, imagine actually having more ogc moves or even chained moves like GNB has, you could make a 3-4 step base combo flavoured with just as much moves inbetween and even branch it out to use different skills, like, adding a buff at the end, a stack to your jobgauge...

Rly lazy ppl could just spam the combo and maybe some ogc, but skilled ppl could weave like crazy.

[Rongway]

It should be one button because there is no reason to use the skills otherwise, there are two abilities i can't use at all if not combo chained, so they just eat up two slots for nothing.(i literally can't use the skills, so there is no window for error!)

You literally can use combo buttons out of order, but it's a bad idea. Having pressable buttons that are "wrong" is a valid video game concept.

It's the buttons that you literally literally can't use out of order that should be consolidated.

It's fine for GNB 1-2-3 to be 1-2-3. But its intercombo 1(1b)-2(2b)-3(3b) should just be 1(4)-2(4)-3(4) because the intercombo literally can't be used out of order.

[Arohk]

You literally can use combo buttons out of order, but it's a bad idea. Having pressable buttons that are "wrong" is a valid video game concept.

It's the buttons that you literally literally can't use out of order that should be consolidated.

It's fine for GNB 1-2-3 to be 1-2-3. But its intercombo 1(1b)-2(2b)-3(3b) should just be 1(4)-2(4)-3(4) because the intercombo literally can't be used out of order.

this is exactly what i am talking about, i think you finally get my point.
can't use #2 unless i use #1, can't use#3 unless i use #2, so it is a waste of space to have #2 and #3 in the bar.
my combo is 1-4-2-4-3-4, but it can jsut be 1-4-1-4-1-4, thats 2 buttons to do the same thing instead of 4 buttons.

[Brightamethyst]

The problem with combos is that they're fake complexity not real complexity.

Combos are not complicated or interesting. They're interesting in theory, with the idea of needing some amount of skill to use them properly, but that's not how it actually works in practice. It's literally just 1-2-3. Unless you accidentally fat finger a wrong button there's no real way to screw it up even now. There's no skill needed beyond the ability to press 3 buttons in the same order over and over.

[Daniolaut]

Which would free up more slots for other stuff, imagine actually having more ogc moves or even chained moves like GNB has, you could make a 3-4 step base combo flavoured with just as much moves inbetween and even branch it out to use different skills, like, adding a buff at the end, a stack to your jobgauge...

Rly lazy ppl could just spam the combo and maybe some ogc, but skilled ppl could weave like crazy.

this is exactly what i am talking about, i think you finally get my point.
can't use #2 unless i use #1, can't use#3 unless i use #2, so it is a waste of space to have #2 and #3 in the bar.
my combo is 1-4-2-4-3-4, but it can jsut be 1-4-1-4-1-4, thats 2 buttons to do the same thing instead of 4 buttons.

Now what you're describing is very reminiscent of the original version 1.0 combat. The one before Yoshida took over.

A button that you spam to attack, and then "weave" abilities between spamming.

That is literally version 1.0.

The game they said was too horrible to save.

The problem with combos is that they're fake complexity not real complexity.

Combos are not complicated or interesting. They're interesting in theory, with the idea of needing some amount of skill to use them properly, but that's not how it actually works in practice. It's literally just 1-2-3. Unless you accidentally fat finger a wrong button there's no real way to screw it up even now. There's no skill needed beyond the ability to press 3 buttons in the same order over and over.

Pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 over and over is more interesting? You do realize thats whats being asked here?

Arent healers complaining that they are extremely bored and infuriated that healing damage is reduced to only 2 buttons?

Talk about inconsistency to the extreme.

[Arohk]

The problem with combos is that they're fake complexity not real complexity.

Combos are not complicated or interesting. They're interesting in theory, with the idea of needing some amount of skill to use them properly, but that's not how it actually works in practice. It's literally just 1-2-3.

well, there is a core problem about that, but i'm not going into detail, i will hit deaf ears anyway.

[Brightamethyst]

Pressing 1 1 1 1 1 1 over and over is more interesting?

No, but if both systems are equally boring why not let us have the extra hotbar space?

The problem with combos goes beyond the 1 button vs 3 buttons argument. As a concept combos are more interesting on paper than in practice. What the game really needs is a complete overhaul of the combat system. Give us fewer buttons but have them all do more and interact with the others in more meaningful ways. Make pressing a a button something I want to do rather than something I have to do. That's an entirely separate conversation though.