Why can't we just have combo chains?

[Maeka]

I say make it a option not force every job to utilize it. I personally would never use it and it wouldn’t work for some jobs but to spit in the face of versatility is a crime. And even if it’s anemic it would make some jobs very boring and the games doing a fine job at that with as is reduced difficulty

I can't really think of any jobs it WOULD work for, really. I mean... even if you take, say, PLD, you'd be turning 4 buttons into 2. Wooo. You'd be going 1-1-1 or 2-2-2. Is it really THAT hard to do 1-2-3 or 1-2-4?

Let's see here... MCH only has one combo so you'd save a whopping 2 buttons, woo. DRG would be a nightmare to do properly, as would MNK, fact is MNK would be even worse because of how their stance system works with their combos, where you have 1 three-button combo, but each button has 2 different choices depending on what you need at any given time.

And Ninja, again, just like MCH, Ninja only has 2 3 button combos, and a whole load of oGCDs that wouldn't be helped whatsoever by the proposed system. BRD wouldn't even see any benefit, DNC... I don't think you'd want to do this, because of how their procs work. And I suppose there's a single combo for RDM.

I just........don't see the need in it.

The two jobs that do have lots of combos and combo abilities are the two jobs that this would be terrible for.

[Shurrikhan]

I can't really think of any jobs it WOULD work for, really. I mean... even if you take, say, PLD, you'd be turning 4 buttons into 2.

5, technically. At present, Atonement acts only as part of the RA combo.

fact is MNK would be even worse

That exact subject has its own variety of beaten-horse dust at this point. It'd require PB not to be a Leaden Fist bot, but apart from that Monk can handle all Form-based weaponskills within 3 keys without issue.

DNC... I don't think you'd want to do this, because of how their procs work.

It actually makes little difference for them save for when luck allows you to time procs to raid buffs for added damage. Without funneling damage into buffs, which is largely out of your control anyways by nature of RNG, it would cost no sustained DPS to use just 1 ST and 1 AoE button for all 8 of DNC's weaponskills -- or, if you still wanted the same rarely-influential freedom, 2 buttons for ST and 2 for AoE.

The two jobs that do have lots of combos and combo abilities are the two jobs that this would be terrible for.

That said, I agree with your overall conclusion. The most combo-based jobs would finally show how little complexity, in terms of action-flow, they actually have, while those with only a thumb's depth more complexity in that flow (e.g. RDM) would keep the same bloated button-count as before, leaving an awkward gulf between their apparent designs.

Above all, if the idea is to remove combo-based button-bloat, then we shouldn't just leave n-1 combo skills unusable at any given time as we have before, even if that means fundamentally changing how combos works. If DRG has two combos, it should have access to two weaponskill buttons... at all times. Pressing [1] once should not lock you into pressing [1] four more times before effectively locking you into [2] for your next five globals. You ought to be able to choose, from balanced or at least situationally-useful choices, between [1] and [2] in every given GCD.

:: Again, though, this hardly matters to me, as I'd rather see the same number of buttons we have now, but with each action able to be used, situationally or macrorotationally, on its own, such that they form synergetic combinations from individually powerful tools rather than rigid sequences that merely increasingly deepen button-bloat.

[WigglesTheWiggly]

BRD wouldn't even see any benefit, DNC... I don't think you'd want to do this, because of how their procs work. And I suppose there's a single combo for RDM.

Just like how the Machinists 1-2-3 combo and Spreadshot in PvP turn into Heatblast and Auto-Crossbow when Hypercharge is activated, the bard could actually benefit from adaptive slots. For example, Heavy Shot automatically turning into Straight Shot when proc'd or Wanderer's Minuet Turning into Pitch Perfect. You can already achieve this to a lesser extent with adaptive macros and though I wouldn't really call them much of combos, they'd save 2 keybinds and cut down on finger acrobatics a smidgen.

Really this goes for any skill that has some direct interaction with another.

[QooEr]

That's why you set your buttons up smartly. You get what again, 12 buttons per page? Start with your combo, IE, the thing you're always doing constantly, and then sticking stuff that has cooldowns on a modifier page, whatever those are and work from there. Can't be THAT difficult to do. It's just a matter of setting them up in an intelligent way. There shouldn't be any reason to split combos up.

in their defense, i have a similar but different issue.
i map all my role and similar abilities for tanks on the same places in my cross hotbar. (stuff such as rampart, 30% mitigation, my aoe mitigation/ shield, self heal, etc)
i have no problem mapping them all to the same places, even on pld which has a lot more buttons than drk and war. however i have to use a different setup for gnb because of the continuation combo.
its not a huge deal but consolidating it would actually let me map my utility buttons the way i like to since itd free 2 slots. like i said its not a huge deal but i end up having conflicting muscle memory when playing on gnb because of this

[Tlamila]

I agree that it wouldn't work for jobs that have split combos, as mentioned, or for monk's complexity.
But for the fixed combos, hell yes! PvP bars are much better also because of that. And why does it feel like you're doing less just because you're pressing 111 instead of 123? You're not doing less, you're just reducing bloating and optimizing the space. You don't have to be a better player to press 3 buttons in succession instead of 1 three times.
Just thinking of for example RDM melee combo, it's 3 buttons you only use a bunch of times in a fight and only in a specific order, what's the use of them taking 3 slots?

[Arohk]

Okay, because a lot of people seem confused about how this would work with multiple combo paths, here is an example of Samurai, which i find horribly laborious to play.



as you can see here, the first ability, hakaze chains into Yukikaze, or it activates Jinpu/Kasha which chains into Gekko/Shifu.
This would only require 3 buttons instead of 6.
the Samurai already has a lot of buttons, off cooldown skills, buffs... having a few more free slots would be much better.

[Tlamila]

Okay, because a lot of people seem confused about how this would work with multiple combo paths, here is an example of Samurai, which i find horribly laborious to play.



as you can see here, the first ability, hakaze chains into Yukikaze, or it activates Jinpu/Kasha which chains into Gekko/Shifu.
This would only require 3 buttons instead of 6.
the Samurai already has a lot of buttons, off cooldown skills, buffs... having a few more free slots would be much better.

And how do you match that with Meikyo Shisui? You made the button give you the last one already?
Apart from that I don't know too much about Samurai cause I levelled it unenthusiastically and then stored.

But take for example Ninja, with that system you'd be only saving up one slot, since you'd only put together Spinning Edge and Gut Slash. Same thing for Paladin's dps combo (at least from where I'm at, not sure if it gets more complicated after 65).

[Arohk]

And how do you match that with Meikyo Shisui? You made the button give you the last one already?
Apart from that I don't know too much about Samurai cause I levelled it unenthusiastically and then stored.

well, sure why not, i never use it for Jinpu or Shifu anyway, optionally , make Gekko trigger the Buff os Jinpu and Shifu trigger the buff of Kasha as well.
If you didn't play the Samurai, well it makes my hand hurt after a while because there are so many hotkeys.

I never played the rogue/ninja, but one button less is one less, it doesn't matter how much each class would be affected by this, some more some less, some not at all, if classes don't have these stupid combo chains with multiple buttons in the first place , they are fine i guess, as i said, my White mage doesn't have a single combo chain and it is alright.

[Feronar]

I personally would prefer 1 2 3 1 2 3 combos to be eliminated entirely. They feel like such a cheap, tacky, low-effort way to add extra buttons and artificial class complexity. I actively play both WoW and FF14, and each game has its strengths and weaknesses, and one thing I like about WoW is that it doesn't use 1 2 3 1 2 3 combos in class abilities.

[Brightamethyst]

I actively play both WoW and FF14, and each game has its strengths and weaknesses, and one thing I like about WoW is that it doesn't use 1 2 3 1 2 3 combos in class abilities.

Agreed. I hate to make WoW comparisons, but it's true. WoW's combat does a lot more with a lot less. In WoW core rotations only have maybe 8-10 buttons but each one does more and they interact with each other in dynamic ways. Instead of pressing 20 buttons in the same exact order over and over you're pressing 8 buttons in varying order depending on the situation, procs, etc.