It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Thing is, it's not, or should not, be as important to you, to restrain people from showing who they are, what they identify as, than censoring them. If you see ('cause thats' s the problem, we all know it...) male wearing female types of glams, either provocative or subtle, you can just shrug it off. You don't have to care. You choose to care.

But if someone that had to hide itself for years or decades wants, needs to show that other side of them, then it's not a choice, it can be very important for their mental health. And yes, surely you can go "That's a mental disorder". Maybe, but neither those people nor me care. If they need the game as a safe space, why would you go out of your way to take that away from them?

That's the one question I'm wondering about...

[Eldevern]

...

Fair enough. I can only reply, things are not black or white. The world is more or less grey or... well, with more or less bright/dull colors.

And it is valid for both side. Someone "born straight" and someone "hesitant" will always hardly understand other's feelings. It unfortunatly can't be helped. It is not only social, it is instinct. Since my young age, as far as I can remember, I've always loved feminine and girly women and my family has nothing to do with that. It's me, my feelings, my tastes. I'm absolutly straitght man IRL and I can play a girly miqo'te... because it's not me, just, some... eyecandy. Same way, I'm absolutly unable to put myself in the shoes of a gay, a intransition or whatever... I don't judge or grudge against them. I don't know and can't know.

As I hardly can understand religious jugdments and their moral matters about clothes.

What I know however, what I've heard and feel about non controversial cases is this : tastes are instincts, for an important part.
I don't like tatoos, I don't feel the need for that and I would never have one.
I don't like hawaiian shirts I far prefer tartans.
When you hear this :
_Look at this dress with big flowers, it's soo grands'ma.
_I love it.
_I could never wear that.

It's like the vibe of a character in theatre. You can feel if it matches or not. And not all people will have the same feeling. I do understand bikers look because I used to love it when I was a child. But now, as an adult, I just don't have this vibe. It would look weird on me and... it's not me, anyway. I like somehow oldfashioned roadsters bikes and would not ride a Chopper Harley but probably could a Ultra Glide. And young I would have been interested in a Hayabusa, I'm not anymore.

If people wish to hide others glamours, as for the ones who want to show specific and personalized glamours, they are both and equaly legitimate.

[MelodyCrystel]

Considering the problem some people got - a ka male characters wearing female clothing - I can only respond with:



Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

[SamRF]

Considering the problem some people got - a ka male characters wearing female clothing - I can only respond with:



Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

A trap for pedophiles perhaps.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

If people wish to hide others glamours, as for the ones who want to show specific and personalized glamours, they are both and equaly legitimate.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I've read everything you wrote, and I understand that you're someone tolerant and everything. But what you don't seem to grasp (and that I didn't grasp, either, before I was told repeatedly about it, because it is indeed not intuitive, is that no, it's not equally legitimate.

Once again, you can choose not to care about the behaviour of one individual among many. But that same individual cannot not care about the behaviour of the whole society about them. Most people that suffer from gender dysphoria also suffer from depression, and when you're depressive, things ARE black and white. To them, having the option "not show other people's glamour" equals telling them "you don't exist, or people can just live their lives without ever noticing you". And by that, I don't mean "notice" as in "Ah, take care of me, I'm very special". They just want people to look at them, and shrug as if it's not important. The point is almost never to have people looking at them, and telling them they are wonderful and everything (of course there are egoistic people among those communities, but that's not my point). The point is that they want people to just accept them.

So yeah, I get where you're coming from. Younger, I was goth, and when I see younger people dressing as goths, I sometimes find it funny, or a bit ridiculous. But that doesn't mean I can tell them, or ignore them. Maybe it's just something they go through, as I did, and it will pass, but maybe that's what they identify as, that's how they will live their lives. You never know. So, as you don't know, you should let them have their space, but in the same time, aknowledge them for what they are : just people going through their lives and wanting to be treated as everyone else.


Also yeah...

Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

Please don't compare a crime with freedom of expression.

[Eldevern]

...

I get your point. But... it's a feature supposed to be use freely at home. We don't ask them to hide in the game. Would use this feature only those who are really bothered, at home, on their own computer and nobody would know.

And, you keep thinking it only applies for... gender matters in mind. But aethetics matters too.

You know, when I'm listening people saying that people with weird stuff break their immersion, I can't get ride of the idea to tease them simply saying :
_But mate, it is a fantasy MMO, your ennemy can actually looks like... some kind of clown. Not an actual beast, not an actual daemon, no. Just a ...bloody mundane clown.
Since it is not a medieval MMO.

I understand you have LGBTQ in mind but... if someone wants to notice and react, he will do and if the person chose to ignore them, he will do too... what is the difference with a feature that is supposed to work at home and be activated willingly, client-side? In the end, the result is the same. Ignore or hide, in fine, there's... no communication, no exchange, no consideration, no warmth... nothing.

Somehow, to ignore someone sounds to me as maybe even worst than to hide some glamour.

[Iscah]

This kind of feature is not important for me. Anyway, the really but really weird thing is...

Why one earth some here feel entitled to force people to see your glamour if they don't like it?
You can glamour the way you want for yourself for your own satisfaction as it appears on your screen but if someone prefer to see the AF by default, why does it bother you that much?

Short answer: because I don't want my character automatically put in the miniskirts that SE decided are standard female AF gear for most of the jobs I play. Whether it happens on my screen or not.

I pick outfits with longer skirts or pants. I don't want that changed back into the outfit I specifically don't want to wear, because someone doesn't like an entirely different group of people's outfits.

And no, targeted turning-off of certain outfits is not the solution. Less likely for me to be personally affected, more theoretical chance for it to be abused in another context.

[Eldevern]

Less likely for me to be personally affected, more theoretical chance for it to be abused in another context.

Pardon?

I'm not the last to consider the world and people can be creepy but... I can't get ride from the idea it goes a bit too far to think that way. You're not your character and your character is not you and... well... it's just a 3D model running virtualy in an alternate world and who as no actual feelings or whatever since it is just a program and a virtual story...

But never mind. Definitely, I suppose I will never be good at RP.

[Krotoan]

Thing is, it's not, or should not, be as important to you, to restrain people from showing who they are, what they identify as, than censoring them. If you see ('cause thats' s the problem, we all know it...) male wearing female types of glams, either provocative or subtle, you can just shrug it off. You don't have to care. You choose to care.

And if we get an option to turn it off they don't have to care.. they would choose to care. Nobody is being RESTRAINED. The modification is on the client, and on the client only. For all intents and purposes the other users would have no indication of any use.

But if someone that had to hide itself for years or decades wants, needs to show that other side of them, then it's not a choice, it can be very important for their mental health. And yes, surely you can go "That's a mental disorder". Maybe, but neither those people nor me care. If they need the game as a safe space, why would you go out of your way to take that away from them?

That's the one question I'm wondering about...

It's already been taken away. Modding exists and although it is against TOS, is widely used. Thus the expectation that EVERYONE see's them as they wish is already shattered.

Short answer: because I don't want my character automatically put in the miniskirts that SE decided are standard female AF gear for most of the jobs I play. Whether it happens on my screen or not.

I pick outfits with longer skirts or pants. I don't want that changed back into the outfit I specifically don't want to wear, because someone doesn't like an entirely different group of people's outfits.

And no, targeted turning-off of certain outfits is not the solution. Less likely for me to be personally affected, more theoretical chance for it to be abused in another context.

And again.. this could be accounted for or even completely circumvented by changing your character model into a "generic", masking your name into initials, or just having some prudish "standard" outfit.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Pardon?

I'm not the last to consider the world and people can be creepy but... I can't get ride from the idea it goes a bit too far to think that way. You're not your character and your character is not you and... well... it's just a 3D model running virtualy in an alternate world and who as no actual feelings or whatever since it is just a program and a virtual story...

But never mind. Definitely, I suppose I will never be good at RP.

It doesn't have anything to do with RP. The basic rule in RP is that your character is not you, everything that happens to it is just as personal as something you'd read in a novel. I do RP, and some of Ositha's enemies are my best friend IRL. But when I play Out of character, my character is more "me".

I don't project myself in any game I play, but since MMORPGs are basically a social network with some gameplay added on it, once you've farmed and done everything you'd want to do, yeah, my interactions with other people IG are as real as my interactions with other people. Precisely because neither me nor them RPs in these moments. When you play a female character and you get sexually harassed by people, it's not your character that is being harassed, but you.

My character does not look like me, but I don't want people to see her in extra-short dresses or skirt. Because that character represents me in that social network that FFXIV is.

That's a paradigm that you may not agree with, but that's how many people play that game, so yes, it is important to preserve freedom of expression in there.

And again.. this could be accounted for or even completely circumvented by changing your character model into a "generic", masking your name into initials, or just having some prudish "standard" outfit.

And after that, we could all just make every map but dungeons character exclusive, so you can't see anyone outside dungeons.

Remember that MMOs are social by definition, and should be preserved that way...