It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Eldevern]

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Fair enough. I can only reply, things are not black or white. The world is more or less grey or... well, with more or less bright/dull colors.

And it is valid for both side. Someone "born straight" and someone "hesitant" will always hardly understand other's feelings. It unfortunatly can't be helped. It is not only social, it is instinct. Since my young age, as far as I can remember, I've always loved feminine and girly women and my family has nothing to do with that. It's me, my feelings, my tastes. I'm absolutly straitght man IRL and I can play a girly miqo'te... because it's not me, just, some... eyecandy. Same way, I'm absolutly unable to put myself in the shoes of a gay, a intransition or whatever... I don't judge or grudge against them. I don't know and can't know.

As I hardly can understand religious jugdments and their moral matters about clothes.

What I know however, what I've heard and feel about non controversial cases is this : tastes are instincts, for an important part.
I don't like tatoos, I don't feel the need for that and I would never have one.
I don't like hawaiian shirts I far prefer tartans.
When you hear this :
_Look at this dress with big flowers, it's soo grands'ma.
_I love it.
_I could never wear that.

It's like the vibe of a character in theatre. You can feel if it matches or not. And not all people will have the same feeling. I do understand bikers look because I used to love it when I was a child. But now, as an adult, I just don't have this vibe. It would look weird on me and... it's not me, anyway. I like somehow oldfashioned roadsters bikes and would not ride a Chopper Harley but probably could a Ultra Glide. And young I would have been interested in a Hayabusa, I'm not anymore.

If people wish to hide others glamours, as for the ones who want to show specific and personalized glamours, they are both and equaly legitimate.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

If people wish to hide others glamours, as for the ones who want to show specific and personalized glamours, they are both and equaly legitimate.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. I've read everything you wrote, and I understand that you're someone tolerant and everything. But what you don't seem to grasp (and that I didn't grasp, either, before I was told repeatedly about it, because it is indeed not intuitive, is that no, it's not equally legitimate.

Once again, you can choose not to care about the behaviour of one individual among many. But that same individual cannot not care about the behaviour of the whole society about them. Most people that suffer from gender dysphoria also suffer from depression, and when you're depressive, things ARE black and white. To them, having the option "not show other people's glamour" equals telling them "you don't exist, or people can just live their lives without ever noticing you". And by that, I don't mean "notice" as in "Ah, take care of me, I'm very special". They just want people to look at them, and shrug as if it's not important. The point is almost never to have people looking at them, and telling them they are wonderful and everything (of course there are egoistic people among those communities, but that's not my point). The point is that they want people to just accept them.

So yeah, I get where you're coming from. Younger, I was goth, and when I see younger people dressing as goths, I sometimes find it funny, or a bit ridiculous. But that doesn't mean I can tell them, or ignore them. Maybe it's just something they go through, as I did, and it will pass, but maybe that's what they identify as, that's how they will live their lives. You never know. So, as you don't know, you should let them have their space, but in the same time, aknowledge them for what they are : just people going through their lives and wanting to be treated as everyone else.


Also yeah...

Good traps are adorable and you can't change my mind.

Please don't compare a crime with freedom of expression.

[Eldevern]

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I get your point. But... it's a feature supposed to be use freely at home. We don't ask them to hide in the game. Would use this feature only those who are really bothered, at home, on their own computer and nobody would know.

And, you keep thinking it only applies for... gender matters in mind. But aethetics matters too.

You know, when I'm listening people saying that people with weird stuff break their immersion, I can't get ride of the idea to tease them simply saying :
_But mate, it is a fantasy MMO, your ennemy can actually looks like... some kind of clown. Not an actual beast, not an actual daemon, no. Just a ...bloody mundane clown.
Since it is not a medieval MMO.

I understand you have LGBTQ in mind but... if someone wants to notice and react, he will do and if the person chose to ignore them, he will do too... what is the difference with a feature that is supposed to work at home and be activated willingly, client-side? In the end, the result is the same. Ignore or hide, in fine, there's... no communication, no exchange, no consideration, no warmth... nothing.

Somehow, to ignore someone sounds to me as maybe even worst than to hide some glamour.

[MelodyCrystel]

Please don't compare a crime with freedom of expression.

Sorry, can't follow your definition of "crime" in this case.

If it's about pedos:
Lalafell hardly match a normal human physique (closest would be toddlers) - and, furthermore, I was told in this forum that pedos playing this game prefer small Au Ra girls a ka playable characters - so that argument won't count for me.

If it's about traps:
Excuse me, princess, but there's nothing wrong with feminine looking guys and / or guys who enjoy female clothing.

If it's about Lalafell:
Oi, Lalas are cute little potatos, so what's your problem?

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

If it's about pedos:
Lalafell hardly match a normal human physique (closest would be toddlers) - and, furthermore, I was told in this forum that pedos playing this game prefer small Au Ra girls a ka playable characters - so that argument won't count for me.

I don't know what pedos play, nor what they want to play, and I sure don't want to know. But calling traps, which is a highly sexual connoted word, something that looks, from your own words, like toddlers, that's definitely pedophilia and a big yikes.

If it's about traps:
Excuse me, princess, but there's nothing wrong with feminine looking guys and / or guys who enjoy female clothing.

I've spent the last 4 or 5 messages arguing for feminine clothing for males (or masculine clothing for females), please don't just read what is being said to you, but what is said on the thread you're talking about. Also, fetishizing transgender people (or crossdressing people) is pretty much just as bad as fetishizing races or anything, and I do hope you're just calling them traps for the meme, and not because that's just a fetish, 'cause that would be highly disrespectful.

If it's about Lalafell:
Oi, Lalas are cute little potatos, so what's your problem?

My two best friends play lalafells, there is nothing wrong with that. They just deserve better players than some people that play them.

I get the point. The fact is my character is... just some kind of puppet and I am the puppeteer, even if I were playing a male character it wouldn't change. Or maybe by instinct I play a female character to keep the distance.

And that's perfectly alright. Nobody should try to change the way you play the game. Nobody's saying you're a bad person because of that. You can of course play a MMORPG without ever concerning yourself with other people, but don't take the option out for other players.

[Eldevern]

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I do interact with others players.

In fact, I've discovered Internet more or less between 1996 and 1999 and already at that time, there were some kind of jokes, of meme, a warning among us (it was more or less before A grade) :
Don't trust people you see on internet, the cute girl can be a ugly fat guy with dirty beard, at home, laughing at you while eating chips and the ugly monster avatar with male pseudonym can be a beautiful girl.

I guess it remains in my mind whatever I do on Internet and leads me to act accordingly.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I do interact with others players.

In fact, I've discovered Internet more or less between 1996 and 1999 and already at that time, there were some kind of jokes, of meme, a warning among us (it was more or less before A grade) :
Don't trust people you see on internet, the cute girl can be a ugly fat guy with dirty beard, at home, laughing at you while eating chips and the ugly monster avatar with male pseudonym can be a beautiful girl.

I guess it remains in my mind whatever I do on Internet and leads me to act accordingly.

Yeah, I was indirectly answering Krotoan here, when I say you can play without concerning yourself with others. My point was "Either your or Krotoan's way of playing are as valid as mine or whoever's, that's why FFXIV should remain a space where everyone can play the way they want". Sorry for not being clear about it.

And of course, there are people that lie about themselves, for whatever reason (because they're trolls, because they fear harassment, and everything in between or outside of that) but, and I certainly won't teach you that out of all things, it's only as important as the trust you put in these people.

[MelodyCrystel]

I don't know what pedos play, nor what they want to play, and I sure don't want to know. But calling traps, which is a highly sexual connoted word, something that looks, from your own words, like toddlers, that's definitely pedophilia and a big yikes.



I've spent the last 4 or 5 messages arguing for feminine clothing for males (or masculine clothing for females), please don't just read what is being said to you, but what is said on the thread you're talking about. Also, fetishizing transgender people (or crossdressing people) is pretty much just as bad as fetishizing races or anything, and I do hope you're just calling them traps for the meme, and not because that's just a fetish, 'cause that would be highly disrespectful.

As I said, I find Lalas cute, but that's not meant in a sexual way. Hence, could you stop the pedo-nonsense while responding to me? That would be nice.

Also, Lalas are the only characters that have a neutral body-type (male and female aren't extremely different like all the others) thus it's tempting very much to make them visual tomboys and whatever term you find better than trap. I don't use the later word in a meme way-- I'm not a native English speaker but a German woman, so you can say I live under a rock considering English trends. I just say trap because that's the phrase people apparently use when they refer to a boy wearing girlish stuff while behaving female-oriented.

Throwing the word fetish so quickly around is pretty unfair as you don't even know me. What if I had been a guy who enjoys dressing like a girl and flirting with boys? Though I'm a female, I can tell you if I had the other gender I would still find some woman-clothes nice to wear - as my personality got a balanced mix of traits common for men and women.