How to deal with Cure/Benefic 1?

[Rasikko]

Cant just remove them, still need them for low end content, plus they are good for fluff damage.

Y'know, we don't really need Medica II or Helios either, right? Let's get rid of those, too.

Just like we never needed Aero III, Miasma, etc., right?

If there's any chance of making skills, or the niches into which they ought to fit, more useful and enjoyable rather than outright removing them, can we at least take the time to consider those possibilities before joining the devs on the 'just gut it all' bandwagon?

Removing Aero 3 was not only bone headed, but chopped off a big source of WHM dps.

[Shurrikhan]

Removing Aero 3 was not only bone headed, but chopped off a big source of WHM dps.

The thing is, though, as long as we're looking at design only in terms of reaching X HPS or DPS, all we need to do is adjust the remaining kit; we lose only gameplay, not output.
Why have decisions when we can just increase Holy's potency floor to make up for the loss of Aero III?
Why have decisions when we can just drop the tickle-heal of Medica II once we have Solace for our on-demand?
Why have decisions we can just drop Freecure entirely and upgrade Cure directly into Cure II?

Obviously, I think we should be instead increasing the amount of healing healers have to do, slightly further improving the 'quick-cast' function of the basic skills after their stronger counterparts arrive as to give space enough for a full oGCD weave, and improving on trait features such as Freecure, but the same logic that works for removing Cure/Physic/Benefic here really does follow the same logic that let the devs do away with Aero III and the like.

[Kabooa]

The thing is, though, as long as we're looking at design only in terms of reaching X HPS or DPS, all we need to do is adjust the remaining kit; we lose only gameplay, not output.

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

[Shurrikhan]

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

And that's fair, and the case far more for Aero III (which was a 120% GCD cast and then a 100% GCD cast) than for Aero II / Dia, which at least provide opportunities for mobility and weaving, and which we kept probably for that exact reason.

I'm just saying that there's no spell past the first couple we've ever "needed" in terms of HPS or DPS, given that the others could just be tuned higher to compensate for the loss. The question has always been and always will be what gameplay they permit.

Do we want a gamestate that allows for (a more polished and appealing version of) Cure/Benefic/Physick to see use, or do we not? That's the question here, not the HPS or DPS that comes with button pruning, since those matters (after a single hotfix, at most) quickly end up at little to no net change.

[Kabooa]

Do we want a gamestate that allows for (a more polished and appealing version of) Cure/Benefic/Physick to see use, or do we not? That's the question here, not the HPS or DPS that comes with button pruning, since those matters (after a single hotfix, at most) quickly end up at little to no net change.

More diversification would be my vote.

For example, Aspected Benefic could be a delayed effect that the Astro triggers later, allowing them to stock healing potency during downtime while Mainline Benefic is their on-demand GCD. Benefic 2 could be one of the spells that trigger Aspected Benefic.

[Shurrikhan]

More diversification would be my vote.

For example, Aspected Benefic could be a delayed effect that the Astro triggers later, allowing them to stock healing potency during downtime while Mainline Benefic is their on-demand GCD. Benefic 2 could be one of the spells that trigger Aspected Benefic.

So, diversifying according to something other than MP cost, since MP is relatively unlimited in most content. Sounds good.

[althenawhm]

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

The gameplay from DoTs come from having to remember to refresh them when its time, but not too soon. Its not deep by any means, but two dots is more entertaining than just one.

[Iscah]

I wouldn't call DoTs gameplay unless there are meaningful interactions with them. Without that, they're just 'bigger potency' buttons you can't push all the time.

I've missed Aero 3's animation more than I have the spell itself.

I miss both, but yeah. The animation for Aero 3 was great.