Housing

[EaMett]

In very populated server, housing are really hard to get. They are taken very very fast. The system is bad :
- to compare to games without restrictions (BDO or Wildstar)
- FC and individuals are in competitions to get housing
- the system is technically a mistake
-> ward are ghost town when mainly owned by individuals, the neighborood is wasted
-> wards are a waste of servers ressources since most of them are ghost towns (need to load several gardens even if only one player is in the whole ward).
-> houses are tiny to compare to what BDO or Wildstar are/were able to offer (BDO : three houses with several levels and rooms)

You can't consider housing without considering what other games are able to offer. The only system I consider as worst is TESO since technically it ends to work more or less as FFXIV plus there is a money wall through the cash-shop. The ressources taken have to make sense, it is not the case. They have a real cost, in fact players as a whole are paying for the exclusivity of a few and that's not a little rewards that doesn't make sense considering ressources, housing IS consuming servers ressources then real money.

Technically, wards are not that different from Aion system (where limits make more sense since there is an auction system). FFXIV is in fact absolutly not innovative at all (and as empty as Aion his, thought apartements in Aion are a bit less ghost town, you most always meet people -but there are inventory and few usefull NPCs-).

Where do I start. First off housing has been balanced around populated servers. They've always tried to maintain 1/3rd of server population having access to housing. On smaller servers this at times was closer to 50%.

Secondly, you're comparing apples to oranges. Comparing ff14 housing which is a PVP mechanic to instanced housing in other games which closer equate to PVE mechanics is moot. It's like comparing an Age of Empire solo campaign to a starcraft II Platinum+ league. They're both RTS but that's where the comparison ends. Anyone can finish the solo campaign, but not everyone makes it above platinum. This is also why it's really pointless to bring instanced housing up in the first place. This might shock many but this has been suggested for as long as housing has been around and surprise surprise, it isn't even on the table.

To further insist. You try to make a point of using ressources to benefit a few. Now 1/3rd population is not a few by any measure but, regardless, my counter argument is why do they even make savage and ultimate fights that benefit even fewer? Hint: there's a reason why you would do this and if you're at all interested in game design, please look up cognitive flow.

The current system isn't a mistake. It may have some technical limitations and it's fine to discuss those in the proper context but the design choices the devs made are not wrong they are just different. Again apples, and oranges. Barring the placard spamming that is horrible, the mechanic is difficult to get into but still rewarding when you make it. This is, almost by definition, a successful mechanic.

It's also not that hard to get into housing even on populated servers as long as you dedicate yourself to it.
There are countless people who've gotten multiple houses, lost their houses and got more, upgraded to medium etc.. etc... From my experience they always fit the dedicated player demographic and that's perfectly in thune with ranking high on a PVP leaderboard (which housing is since the more time you have to put towards it the more likely you are to get one).

The only thing that is truly hard to do in housing currently is get a mansion as an individual. And this was brought forward as a request by the community

[Eldevern]

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It has nothing to do with PVP. At least it is not supposed to work that way. Housing is usullay imagined as QoL and RP. And if they want housing PVP oriented, then IT HAS TO BE AUCTIONS.

The housing, as we can see it, has been built, it is an evidence, to be FCs only.

I've always thought it was a mistake to open this system to individuals. The less we can say is Y-P underestimated the need for QoL/RP housing. And still do, with this weird obsession for neighborood.

[EaMett]

It has nothing to do with PVP. At least it is not supposed to work that way. Housing is usullay imagined as QoL and RP. And if they want housing PVP oriented, then IT HAS TO BE AUCTIONS.

The housing, as we can see it, has been built, it is an evidence, to be FCs only.

I've always thought it was a mistake to open this system to individuals. The less we can say is Y-P underestimated the need for QoL/RP housing. And still do, with this weird obsession for neighborood.

Oh and just wanted to bounce off of this and ask why it "isn't supposed to work like that?". The devs have explained their choices in the past. They wanted housing to be limited and for ownership to feel like an accomplishment (to paraphrase them). What makes their decision bad? That some people don't have access to it? But that's the whole point.

Also in regards to the issues from auctions. You're basically condemning non crafters and people who have a life (job/school) to never get access to these ressources because they will simply never be able to compete. If you pull in the completely opposite direction and suggest a lottery then you remove a lot of the work (time spent) and accomplishment of earning a house (going against the initial design).
The current placard spamming, as bad as it is, at least allows for some luck to level the playing field (aka help people with a job) while still favoring those willing to put more effort. They should just make the plot unlocks happen every 20mn on the dot so people don't need to sit there constantly clicking and can just spam click for a few seconds instead before waiting another 20mn. Keeps the mechanic intact and helps preserve people's sanity. It's a mystery to me why they haven't made this quick fix already.

[Eldevern]

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PVP, since it is some kind of RNG if you succeed to connect to the game when there is a rush or to connect the random right time?

I agree for auctions. But still, it as nothing to do with some kind of PVP, there's nothing fair. The current system is just a big mess.

Accomplishment? When the rules were to be connected (if you succeed to connect without 90002) in daytime (thanks for the people who are working) and rush in housing areas to buy and let other people left behind?

You call that a fair competition and fair accomplishment?! What a joke!

You're in the game since the Beta, you are leaving for more than 45 days, whatever the reason it is, you lose your house? When they said we would never lose house?
There's nothing fair, that's just a big trick.

[EaMett]

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You're taking only one aspect of the housing (which is the new ward/area addition) and giving it too much importance + also making it sound significantly harder than it is. 90002 happen to some people (which we can't quantify anyways so not sure what value it has as an argument), and so do queues. Neither of them automatically lock you out of housing as a whole. Work is also a normal detriment to any pvp when compared to those that have all the time in the world, your point?

There's plenty of opportunity to get houses outside of ward launches. As a matter of fact most people I know have done it this way. There are a few tricks of the trade that help you achieve your goal with less effort. People keep complaining about it but we rarely hear anything more than "I tried and didn't manage". That says very little, especially when you get first hand experience/accounts of getting not one but multiple houses and upgrades in the span of 2-3 months on high pop servers. Why is it always the same players that manage to get the houses? Why's there such a dichotomy in player experience? I suspect it's for the same reason I'll never get the diadem titles, I don't spend enough time at it to compete with other players.

[Eldevern]

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You don't get me, I have the feeling you believe I'm upset because I don't have a mansion. I have the gils, I can do the crafts, I even have some furnitures and items ready.

What are the fact : I've bought two mansions and lost them (I was absolutly aware of it, thought if was recent and Y-P said we would not lose house).
I've managed to purchase one again, coming back in the game after a break. But it was individual and I've decided to give up my mansion.

Why? I've thought it was unfair for FCs (and somehow useless without the workshop). And to craft everything again... I'm so-so.
I could have bought one the last addition of wards... But I've anyway delayed my subscribtion (my second -third?- hiatus).

How can we consider PVP or achievment when :
- we can lose our house
- our crafts
- item sold in mogstation can both be stolen or lost
- individual and FCs are in competition

I've purposely decided to give up having a mansion. Maybe I will try again. I'm unsure.

But for now, my position is currently simple : I've decided to refuse to support the current system and advocating for, at least, an extended instancied system, why not a duplex with some kind of greenhouse. They don't need to change everything for that.

And... I can't support the system for another reason, it's called... glitchs. A few are interesting, some other are a total mess that shouldn't even exist (a mezzanine we can't even use as it should without glitchs? wut).

[EaMett]

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It's unfortunate you had to lose your mansion the first time around. That just sucks. I'm no expert in house item salvaging options but I do remember thinking they were lackluster.
Losing your house if inactive makes sense for many reasons. It does create some borderline cases though since technically you can't take a hiatus with a house anymore. The silver lining being that those houses don't go to waste and will make someone's day.

I'm also not sitting here saying that things shouldn't be tweaked/fixed. I'm just saying the housing design isn't flawed in the way people like to make it seem.

On a semi side note I find the housing glitches fascinating and really handy. It allows for extra expression and emulates features that would otherwise take time and effort to implement. It also provides an expertise niche and a sub market for designers where there's a noticeable difference between the skill floor and skill ceiling. I'm a fan.

[Canada_bangs]

PVP, since it is some kind of RNG if you succeed to connect to the game when there is a rush or to connect the random right time?

I agree for auctions. But still, it as nothing to do with some kind of PVP, there's nothing fair. The current system is just a big mess.

Accomplishment? When the rules were to be connected (if you succeed to connect without 90002) in daytime (thanks for the people who are working) and rush in housing areas to buy and let other people left behind?

You call that a fair competition and fair accomplishment?! What a joke!

You're in the game since the Beta, you are leaving for more than 45 days, whatever the reason it is, you lose your house? When they said we would never lose house?
There's nothing fair, that's just a big trick.

To be fair to YP. When he said that they didnt have plans to change it. But things changed and he had to walk that back. People need to understand things are rarely set in stone and these things can and often enough DO change.

[Cirque-it]

Comparing ff14 housing which is a PVP mechanic to instanced housing in other games which closer equate to PVE mechanics is moot[/B]

This is quit possible the dumbest thing I have ever heard in all my 15 years of MMO's (Warcraft, Star Wars, and now FF14) Housing has nothing to do with PvP in anyway!!! Its a quality of life mechanic designed to enhance your endgame experience!
If it WAS a pvp mechanic there would be some kind of scoreboard or ladder that you could see (like they implemented in Ishgard restoration because add PvP to CRAFTING)
You are so incredible not aware of even the simplest of game mechanics that you resort to the lowest grade of proverbial wisdom to try and justify your point!!
"Comparing Apples to oranges" really???? Thats what you have to say!!? Followed by completely misinterpreting the meaning of the term PvP = (Player versus player)
The houses dont compete in score, the houses dont magically stand up and fight one another, the houses dont get anyform of achievement or titel that would otherwise serve as a "badge" to showoff to other players. Seriously sir do some research before you spout random scentences that are completely false!

need more convincing?

If housing is indeed intended as PvP... why can you set your house to restricted access, disallowing anyone else from entering???
The whole point of anything pvp in anygame EVER = Titles, trophies, badghes, gear, mounts, ladder boards etc. If housing WAS intended as PvP there would be a score attached to your house, there would be a message score card outside your house so people could see your tally, there would be a ladder board where people can see the highest scoring houses + their location so people can come gawk and awe at your "magnificence", and you certainly would NOT be given the opportunity to restrict acces or hide your score card!!

I simple cannot express how absolutely appauled I am to see comments like this be freely posteable... at least on wikipedia i can take false information down!

[EaMett]

This is quit possible the dumbest thing I have ever heard in all my 15 years of MMO's (Warcraft, Star Wars, and now FF14) Housing has nothing to do with PvP in anyway!!! Its a quality of life mechanic designed to enhance your endgame experience!
If it WAS a pvp mechanic there would be some kind of scoreboard or ladder that you could see (like they implemented in Ishgard restoration because add PvP to CRAFTING)
You are so incredible not aware of even the simplest of game mechanics that you resort to the lowest grade of proverbial wisdom to try and justify your point!!
"Comparing Apples to oranges" really???? Thats what you have to say!!? Followed by completely misinterpreting the meaning of the term PvP = (Player versus player)
The houses dont compete in score, the houses dont magically stand up and fight one another, the houses dont get anyform of achievement or titel that would otherwise serve as a "badge" to showoff to other players. Seriously sir do some research before you spout random scentences that are completely false!

need more convincing?

If housing is indeed intended as PvP... why can you set your house to restricted access, disallowing anyone else from entering???
The whole point of anything pvp in anygame EVER = Titles, trophies, badghes, gear, mounts, ladder boards etc. If housing WAS intended as PvP there would be a score attached to your house, there would be a message score card outside your house so people could see your tally, there would be a ladder board where people can see the highest scoring houses + their location so people can come gawk and awe at your "magnificence", and you certainly would NOT be given the opportunity to restrict acces or hide your score card!!

I simple cannot express how absolutely appauled I am to see comments like this be freely posteable... at least on wikipedia i can take false information down!

Wow, call me out for "misinterpreting pvp" then spouting a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with PVP. And I'm supposedly the dumb one....

Sorry to burst your 15 years of mmo bubble that clearly mean absolutely nothing, but lets curb that attitude of yours.

PvP is player versus player. At it's core you compete against other players for a limited ressource. Whether that be a point system for a ranking (the simplest of which would be ending as a winner), or it could be the right to access or continue using an area, or to keep playing in said area, etc.. or, what else would be a good example.... OH YEAH, HOUSING IN FF14 WHERE PLAYERS COMPETE AGAINST OTHER PLAYERS TO ENTER THE RANKING OF WHO OWNS A HOUSE VS WHO DOESN'T... Damn why didn't I think of that earlier /s. If I were smart I would even say that houses are a pvp reward and an achievement badge in their own right, because you know, that would circle back into housing being a limited ressource, but alas, what do I know? I mean it's not like the devs have mentioned this exact thing in the past as the reason for their design choices /s. Point made?

What you do with your house (restrict or not) has nothing to do with it, houses competing in scores? What are you talking about? You're conflating game mechanics with game rewards.

A wise person once said something that I think you should reflect on :

I simply cannot express how absolutely appalled I am to see comments like this be freely posteable... at least on wikipedia i can take false information down!