Can we please delay Savage?

[Sebazy]

People already generally hate the idea of delaying the 1/3 of savage tiers, yes.

Hi!

Please cite your sources for this, thanks <3

Ps, I've been in many of the most accomplished raid and progression focused FC's in the EU over the years including Solitude, Exordium, Angered and Entropy. I've never seen any complaints about how the first savage tier release timing has been handled since HW. And as one of the more midcore members in a retirement home team (My team usually clears on week 2) the steady drip feed of content on that first tier actually keeps us engaged with the game for longer. With this patch we're likely to get our 8 clears and then we're done until 5.4 and that's even more the case for the hardcore teams.

The speed at which players chew through content now coupled with SE's unwillingness to invest the money back into this game that it truly deserves means that the staggered content patches are a sad reality that is probably needed to stop the end game population truly collapsing pre patch.

[Tadertots]

I'm for it, sure. It would immensely cut down the stress for hardcore raiders and world firsters who have to aggressively rush to gather, craft, overmeld, and clear normal as fast as humanly possible to start the prog for world first racing. They'd have a week for prep and to organize everything that needs to be taken care of.

Yet like 2? 3? people against this change have gone on record in this thread saying "I don't care either way" so....why ya'll fighting so damn bad if it doesn't even affect you. Nobody cares about your white knighting for something that isn't even a problem.

[Valorak]

Genuine question: what problems would they cause?

-snip-

If you want theories on why people don't care about the first delay; I assume that it comes from the fact that the expansion has enough content to sate peoples' appetites until the first mini patch? Like I said though, I don't think the fact that there aren't many complaints about that does anything to negate the complaints about delaying subsequent patches.

As for the problems, I'd say that it would depend on what the delay entails.

If it's a week-long delay on Savage? The most commonly stated problem that I've seen is that people just don't want to wait an extra week for something that they should be able to play on patch day. There are also people that are worried that it would slightly reduce the difficulty of Savage unless the devs go out of their way to tune for extra gear.

If the delay includes tomestones and crafted gear then that mostly fixes the worry about reduced difficulty. However, now you're delaying additional content that's usually ready to launch with the patch. When I have the time make a whole thing out of the patch day, part of my experience is running around and looking at all the new gear before I start going for tomestones/crafting. This would split the patch day into basically two mini-patches and I probably wouldn't have time to make a day out of both of those. So now you're affecting people outside of the Savage raiding community.

Is that a common problem to run into? I doubt it; and it's not a big enough deal to me to justify refusing a delay if it helps other people enjoy the story more. That said, it still negatively affects how I like to play.

So if your answer to these problems is going to be something like "Big deal, just wait a week" or "Who cares?", then you shouldn't be surprised when you get similar answers regarding the plight of competitive raiders. You may think those are weak complaints, but in this case, it's not really up to you to decide whether or not someone's issue is legitimate or not. They probably think that your complaint is just as weak. If you want some sort of constructive dialogue in this thread then we'll need compromise/empathy on both sides.

This is directed at a lot of people in this topic btw. I'm just using 2nd-person pronouns because you're the one that has been engaging with me.

[Penthea]

If it's a week-long delay on Savage? The most commonly stated problem that I've seen is that people just don't want to wait an extra week for something that they should be able to play on patch day.

If people can wait several months, they can wait one more week. I already said savage isn't the bulk of the content. They have other things they can do until then.

There are also people that are worried that it would slightly reduce the difficulty of Savage unless the devs go out of their way to tune for extra gear.

If the delay includes tomestones and crafted gear then that mostly fixes the worry about reduced difficulty.

If the content release mimics how it is done at launch then this won't really be an issue. If it's not an issue there, why would it be in other tiers?

So if your answer to these problems is going to be something like "Big deal, just wait a week" or "Who cares?", then you shouldn't be surprised when you get similar answers regarding the plight of competitive raiders. You may think those are weak complaints, but in this case, it's not really up to you to decide whether or not someone's issue is legitimate or not. They probably think that your complaint is just as weak. If you want some sort of constructive dialogue in this thread then we'll need compromise/empathy on both sides.

But these people are okay with the savage delay on expansion launch...so I don't understand how they would not be for all tiers. I already said savage isn't the bulk of the content. It never is.

So it all boils down to your assumption that a lot of people are simply impatient. Sorry but I don't think their impatience matters more than guaranteeing that everyone from casual to ultra hardcore gets the chance to experience the story as it is intended to be told, without interfering with how they normally play.

When savage comes people can and will do it over and over and over again until they're done. However you only get one chance to experience the story properly. Unless SE come up with a way for players to experience the story in full (cutscenes and out of cutscene story content, and any duties) as many times as they wish, then savage delay is the only way to make sure everyone can enjoy the story without anything getting in the way.

If SE do bring in a way for players to experience the story in absolute full as many times as they wish (so that players who do rush can go back whenever and experience the story as it should be told), then I would be fine with not having a savage delay.

[Valorak]

If people can wait several months, they can wait one more week. I already said savage isn't the bulk of the content. They have other things they can do until then.

-snip-

This isn't launch though. There isn't an entire expansion worth of story and multiple combat classes and crafting to level while they wait for their FC/static to catch up.

The initial mini-patches for the raids come on the tail end of that high. I assume that's why people don't care as much. However, subsequent content patches are following 3-months of the same content on repeat, and there's far less to do compared to an entire expansion. They aren't the same situation at all really.

So it all boils down to your assumption that a lot of people are simply impatient. Sorry but I don't think their impatience matters more than guaranteeing that everyone from casual to ultra hardcore gets the chance to experience the story as it is intended to be told, without interfering with how they normally play.
-snip-

*sigh*

You don't get to decide how people choose to consume and enjoy content, nor do you get to decide whose opinion holds more inherent value. I understand that you want to boil it all down to "impatience" and that you think that their issue with the delay isn't worth interfering with the desires of some competitive raiders. But why should they care about your reasoning when you don't care about theirs?

Why should a subset of competitive raiders' experiences be held above anyone else's experience? Does the fact that someone participates in competitive Savage suddenly invalidate the enjoyment that I get out of window shopping for glamours and crafting on the first day of a patch? Does it invalidate the fact that someone has to now spend more leave days spread across a couple of weeks in order to fully enjoy the content of a patch?

I may be willing to put up with those changes so that others can enjoy the story more, but that doesn't mean that other people are wrong to come to a different conclusion. You're continuing to only look at this from your side of the table and that's why you, and others in here, can't understand why there's any resistance to a delay.

[Fland]

So it all boils down to your assumption that a lot of people are simply impatient. Sorry but I don't think their impatience matters more than guaranteeing that everyone from casual to ultra hardcore gets the chance to experience the story as it is intended to be told, without interfering with how they normally play.

This point has been iterated before but nobody is forced to not experience the story as intended.
And please don't use such a strong word as "guaranteeing". There's no guarantee that delaying savage will not inconvenience someone, we don't know how people allocate their time. Some people might have only a week or couple days to allocate and can't do staggered two weeks apart content release.

[Penthea]

You don't get to decide how people choose to consume and enjoy content, nor do you get to decide whose opinion holds more inherent value. I understand that you want to boil it all down to "impatience" and that you think that their issue with the delay isn't worth interfering with the desires of some competitive raiders. But why should they care about your reasoning when you don't care about theirs?

Why should a subset of competitive raiders' experiences be held above anyone else's experience? Does the fact that someone participates in competitive Savage suddenly invalidate the enjoyment that I get out of window shopping for glamours and crafting on the first day of a patch? Does it invalidate the fact that someone has to now spend more leave days spread across a couple of weeks in order to fully enjoy the content of a patch?

I may be willing to put up with those changes so that others can enjoy the story more, but that doesn't mean that other people are wrong to come to a different conclusion. You're continuing to only look at this from your side of the table and that's why you, and others in here, can't understand why there's any resistance to a delay.

Thank you for utterly ignoring the part where I said I would be okay with not having a savage delay if SE bring in something that allows players to experience the story (with all cutscenes, out of cutscene dialogue and duties) as many times as they wish so that rushing on patch day to keep up with competition would not completely deprive them of experiencing the story as it is meant to be told.

We already have something similar in the game like this, it's called New Game +. If SE add in raid content to that, problem solved.

But no instead lets just go on about how I'm trying to dictate how others should play and ignore that I have proposed something that keeps both parties happy.

Here it is again in case you genuinely missed it:

When savage comes people can and will do it over and over and over again until they're done. However you only get one chance to experience the story properly. Unless SE come up with a way for players to experience the story in full (cutscenes and out of cutscene story content, and any duties) as many times as they wish, then savage delay is the only way to make sure everyone can enjoy the story without anything getting in the way.

If SE do bring in a way for players to experience the story in absolute full as many times as they wish (so that players who do rush can go back whenever and experience the story as it should be told), then I would be fine with not having a savage delay.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Thank you for utterly ignoring the part where I said I would be okay with not having a savage delay if SE bring in something that allows players to experience the story (with all cutscenes, out of cutscene dialogue and duties) as many times as they wish so that rushing on patch day to keep up with competition would not completely deprive them of experiencing the story as it is meant to be told.

We already have something similar in the game like this, it's called New Game +. If SE add in raid content to that, problem solved.

But no instead lets just go on about how I'm trying to dictate how others should play and ignore that I have proposed something that keeps both parties happy.

Here it is again in case you genuinely missed it:

They did, coil, Alexander, and omega are part of ng+ already.


New chapters have been added to New Game+.
The final quest of each chapter must be completed before it can be unlocked.

Chronicles of a New Era Quests
The Binding Coil of Bahamut
Alexander
Omega
The Crystal Tower
The Shadow of Mhach
Return to Ivalice
The Warring Triad
The Four Lords
Side Story Quests
Hildibrand, Agent of Enquiry
Further Hildibrand Adventures
Even Further Hildibrand Adventures
Tales from Dragonsong War
Saint Endalim's Scholasticate

[Valorak]

Thank you for utterly ignoring the part where I said I would be okay with not having a savage delay if SE bring in something that allows players to experience the story (with all cutscenes, out of cutscene dialogue and duties) as many times as they wish so that rushing on patch day to keep up with competition would not completely deprive them of experiencing the story as it is meant to be told.

We already have something similar in the game like this, it's called New Game +. If SE add in raid content to that, problem solved.

But no instead lets just go on about how I'm trying to dictate how others should play and ignore that I have proposed something that keeps both parties happy.

Here it is again in case you genuinely missed it:

Uh...sorry? You spent half of your post reiterating that people can just "wait another week" and that people's "impatience" doesn't matter as much as accommodating the people that are requesting the delay, so I felt that's what needed to be addressed the most. Aside from that, you've skipped over a couple of my points throughout our discussion, so I didn't think you'd mind if I jumped over a silver-bullet solution that doesn't require much discussion.

But yes, if they decided to include an even more comprehensive version of New Game+ then that'd be great. That doesn't seem very likely in the middle of an expansion since it'd take up a lot of developer time, but I think that's a good option for the future.

EDIT:

Well then the solution is clear. Add current raid content to it. Those who rush can go back and redo it if they wish, and those who don't want to wait an extra week for savage won't have to worry about story reasons making them wait.

------------------------------------
Oh I see that they already add raid stuff to it. I've been waiting for them to add the OG story before I looked at it, so I'm admittedly unfamiliar with what stories it lets you replay atm. Yeah if they could add current storylines straight away, then that seems like it would work.

[Coatl]

I've been asking for them to delay the subsequent tiers for awhile now. The first tier is so nice since you have a whole week to prep for the raid tier, but for the rest you have to scramble for.