Healing is now a state of permanent hatred.

[Billythepancake]

I mean, even before you used that pic you where toting the "Make Scholar great again" signature. But ok, as you say.

Right, moreso because I do want to make SCH fun to play again, aka, being great, and, for all my issues with Trump I like the memes around it, so why not use it as a basis?

[Saefinn]

I think Kummies came in with the right intentions and that I don't think they meant to come off as dismissive to the person earlier in the thread that took them be as such, so unless I missed something then a passive aggressive or sarcastic comment to them was not fair, that I'll agree because his comment was not abrasive in approach and was trying to say "hey, there are those of us who like it" without saying it's bad to not like it.

But I think Billy is right in illustrating that it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Branded, you've not exactly been clean in your approach with people you disagree with.

[Volkaj]

Sch still plays the same way it's always has. It's always been about managing your pet and aetherflow cooldowns. It actually does have a gameplay loop in the fae guage. Which means all your aetherflow skills have extra effective heal potency equivalent to either a Fey Blessing or a tick of Fey Union. Meaning even if you spent all of your aetherflow on energy drains you still have Gauge to spend. And with the fact the fairy automatically returns to you when Dissipation wears off, I've found it to be a very effective tool, whether to manage my mp and add damage with extra Energy Drains. Or even...*gasp* the 20% healing potency for situations where crap hits the fan and you actually do need to gcd heal. Yes the lack of fae guage during that time kinda hurts, but it's the only real drawback anymore. And if you say "It locks you out of your fairy skills" I say, "That's when you use your fairy skills first, then dissipate her."

I can't say much about AST, since I'm no AST main. But I can about SCH. SCH DPS has always been about managing DoTs. Even with the cull in SB you still had Shadowflare, Miasma, Miasma II, Bio II and Bane. Pet management in HW/SB has been positioning for maximum Embrace (heavily nerfed) and pet OGCD (gone) weaving. Aetherflow also got a big blow from SB with the removal of Quickened Aetherflow.

So no, SCH does not play as it did.

Gameplay loop in the Fae Gauge? Healing tools are always planned around mechanics, and as such do not really loop. You either plan to use Fey Union/Fey Blessing at certain points in the fight or you don't, there's no constant looping like DPS rotations. Dissipation returning the fairy back saves you exactly one GCD compared to SB's version, so while it is a plus, I personally think that it is not a great a buff.

That said, there are things I think SCH gained from ShB (it just lost a lot more than it gained).
Recitation is a very good, in-theme replacement for Largesse. For all its clunkiness, Seraph + Consolation is stronger than SB's Fey Covenant (very rough equivalent) as OGCD mitigation.

[Volkaj]

It appeals to me, Im enjoying the hell out of it.. actually this is the funniest expansion I've played, HW cutting close second. The savages are amazing, TEA is amazing, the story is amazing, crafters and gathers getting content, gear is amazing, music slaps. Spam click malefic and reapply combust every 30s. Not the most engaging but between handling boss mechanics, healing, managing cards, and dpsing, I'm comfy!

I have to point out that most of the things you listed aren't related to AST gameplay directly. ShB fights and story are amazing, the changes to DoL/DoH clean up quite a bit of cruft, and the music is god-tier. But none of these change the fact that compared to SB, AST cards are less diverse in their effects, and Divination is (subjectively) less satisfying to pull off than spreading cards or manipulating buff durations.

Now I'm no AST main, so I'm genuinely curious as to why you prefer ShB's version of AST compared to SB's. Aren't the cards less mechanically interesting?

[KDSilver]

For scholar. Here's my controversial hot take. Despite the simplification of the dps rotation. Sch still plays the same way it's always has.

No.
- I no longer have to keep track of my dots timer during downtime
- I no longer can micromanage the fairy while I'm doing something else, like dedicated target for embrace, whispering dawn when casting something else (raise/heal/dps spell)
- I no longer have to keep track of my aetherflow cooldown, trait was removed + out of combat.
- I no longer have to question myself about the fairy to use. Yes, Eos was the way to go for a lot of content. Be fairy swapping during fight transition/or going full selene when the extra healing was not needeed.
- More and more Raw healing capacity and HoTs were added through time made preshielding really less valuable that it used to be. Adlo slowly transitioned from shield that is recommended to use to "I need gcd heal and physick sucks".
- Less mitigation tools over time (Virus splitted into DPS, eye for and eye deleted)
- Scholar was yet versatile, with really good healing abilities, but misusing one of those at the wrong time (namely indom/whispering dawn) was a stronger punishment. Now just press any button, it'll do something. We lost that risk/reward/planning/knowledge of the fight even more. That's still a thing to preplan healing in a fight, but we got so many oGCD that now you can't even really be wrong, outside of spamming adlo and succor all day.
- Not a really good point but still, no mana managment (I can hear already that scholar's mana never was hard because its mana economy was really good, but i'm taking about Miasma II weaving for this. Without teamwork or good party composition with brd/mch for refresh or even some manashift, you had to deal with it on your own).

Despite still having a lot of its old toolkit, Scholar lost so many things to think about and got so much more healing capacity that it's now closer to a WHM/AST feeling that the real old scholar.

When I remember all I did during HW (a bit less in SB), I cannot let someone say that's "it's the same but more simple".
No.
I used to say that scholar had 4 mini-games inside its gameplay. Fairy managment, Aetherflow managment, dot managment and shielding managment. Proper planning and usage of each reunited together made a strong and real fun healer.
All of these are still here. But they no longer are mini games cause like I said, now, just press some key buttons, it'll do something anyway.
Scholar's gameplay were terrible butchered in the name of this so called healer balance where they took the decision to cut the fun for it.
For me, scholar was what I called an almost perfect class. He had the tool, the deep gameplay. Now it's plenty boring and blend.
It sure needeed some adjustment regarding the fairy (even critlo was way too strong, you shouldn't have a shield allowing you to ignore mechanic or incoming damage at all), but not to where we are now.


If people are right now having fun with it, who see barely a difference, that's all great for you guys.
But I know what class I played and put time in for these last 5 years, and it's not what I currently have on my hands. All what made me in love and dedicated to it are gone, and no one will make be believe that's it's pure fantasy to think that.

I won't talk about what the healer role got away too, that's another layer of the long list of what we have lost.

That's why healers and precisely scholar is now so dead boring and unfun to play (at least, from an older dedicated healer player's point of view).

[FoxCh40s]

For scholar. Here's my controversial hot take. Despite the simplification of the dps rotation. Sch still plays the same way it's always has. It's always been about managing your pet and aetherflow cooldowns. It actually does have a gameplay loop in the fae guage. Which means all your aetherflow skills have extra effective heal potency equivalent to either a Fey Blessing or a tick of Fey Union. Meaning even if you spent all of your aetherflow on energy drains you still have Gauge to spend. And with the fact the fairy automatically returns to you when Dissipation wears off, I've found it to be a very effective tool, whether to manage my mp and add damage with extra Energy Drains. Or even...*gasp* the 20% healing potency for situations where crap hits the fan and you actually do need to gcd heal. Yes the lack of fae guage during that time kinda hurts, but it's the only real drawback anymore. And if you say "It locks you out of your fairy skills" I say, "That's when you use your fairy skills first, then dissipate her."

I love that you have an opinion, it's wrong, but its nice.

It doesnt even remotely play how it use to.

There's no dual casting your and fairies ability at the same time, no bane, no slow, no malady, no glorious burst AoE with DoT.

Without Quickened Aetherflow, Dissipate had gone right back to being what it used to be, pointless and counter productive other than pushing extra dps.

I'm sorry, I dont like to sound mean, but I just had to put my two cents in there my dude.

[FoxCh40s]

I used to say that scholar had 4 mini-games inside its gameplay. Fairy managment, Aetherflow managment, dot managment and shielding managment. Proper planning and usage of each reunited together made a strong and real fun healer.

If people are right now having fun with it, who see barely a difference, that's all great for you guys.
But I know what class I played and put time in for these last 5 years, and it's not what I currently have on my hands. All what made me in love and dedicated to it are gone, and no one will make be believe that's it's pure fantasy to think that.

*cries in corner*

Need a beer man, because I sure do.

6 years of healing on Scholar, it was a perfect class; now it's not even a shadow of what it used to be.

I miss Heavensward Scholar SOOOOO much.

[DiznypKC]

lol.. what? Why do you keep waving this 'veteran healer' card over my head like that gives you some privilege..? I've main'd healer since HW launch and been a AST since it released. . I've seen all the ups and downs. So you can stop talking to me like I just bought the game with ShB. As a matter of fact, its a two way street. When you said "the group of veteran healers who aren’t enjoying this new iteration of healers" well guess what buddy.. there are also veteran healers who enjoy the new iteration of healers. So I dont know what to tell you. Guess just wait till another expansion comes out cause this conversation isnt going anywhere.

You literally said you haven’t been here long. I obviously mistook that to mean you were either relatively new to the game or to healing. That’s my bad, and I’ll own up to it.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel the need to try and shut every person down who disagrees with you? I never said there weren’t veteran healers who enjoy the new iteration. You’ve pretty much offered nothing to the conversation other than “You don’t speak for everyone,” “I like it,” and then stormed out like a child. You just keep coming at me because, what, you’re bored? Maybe go try some of that lackluster healing you’re so happy with and stop derping around on the forums.

[DiznypKC]

You know what, ignore the second half of that message. I’m tired and don’t want to be rude as it solves nothing. You’ve got your opinion, I’ve got mine. We’ll leave it at that. Enjoy your gaming. At least you can.

[Kummies]

I have to point out that most of the things you listed aren't related to AST gameplay directly. ShB fights and story are amazing, the changes to DoL/DoH clean up quite a bit of cruft, and the music is god-tier. But none of these change the fact that compared to SB, AST cards are less diverse in their effects, and Divination is (subjectively) less satisfying to pull off than spreading cards or manipulating buff durations.

Now I'm no AST main, so I'm genuinely curious as to why you prefer ShB's version of AST compared to SB's. Aren't the cards less mechanically interesting?

I mean, some people love the old cards but personally I didn't find them interesting. It was just a bunch of unwanted clutter. The most common thing to do with the old card system was fish for a aoe balance. Like it or not but people like to do more damage. I never heard a tank say "sweet bole on that tank buster it saved me" or "Wow that aoe bole saved us from that raid-wide dmg". People parse, people like damage, people want to do more damage. With the new card system I can give everyone the dmg they want while also increasing that damage again with divination. I don't have to stress about rng never giving me and balance and having to settle for something lesser like aoe spear.

Just to recap on old cards
Ewer - Gave mana regen (Never used, Lucid Dreaming and mana pots are cool)
Bole - Damage Reduction (Cute, but tanks have CD's )
Spear - Increase Crit hit rate (Not bad but one-up'd by balance)
Arrow - Increase attack speed (Other then giving it to BLM with 150% potency, poop)
Spire - TP regen (.. lol )
Balnce - Damage Increase (everyone wants it)

Again, it all comes down to personal preference but for me this is funnier and less of a headache to deal with in savages and TEA. I just personally like not having to wait 5 mins between pulls fishing for that AOE balance for openers.