Dark Knight - I Used To Love You

[TouchandFeel]

-to simple mechanically specially if doesn't have oGCD involved making it tedious and boring.

I agree and that is basically what I was saying, that spam-burst mechanics that having you pressing the same button a bunch of times in a row are too simplistic and therefore boring.
As for the oGCD part, I think that depends somewhat. For a job like GNB that is very much about a set rotation, a set burst rotation that includes a specified combination of GCD and oGCD attacks works. For a job like DRK, I personally feel like leaving it more free-form where you should be weaving oGCDs between every GCD but requires some level of planning and resource management makes more sense to me.

-aesthetically lame, forcing me to see the same animation several times in a row it's not only antinatural for me, strategically speaking nobody will hit the same spot the same time doing the same move several times in a row, granted it's a videogame but thats why it's bother me.

I agree. The same animation being repeated one after another a bunch tends to look bad and can be a tad immersion breaking. It's a complaint that I have seen quite a bit, especially on the Japanese tank forums. It's something that I keep in mind when thinking of burst period design and an issue that I have tried to address in some of my Delerium rework suggestions, including my most recent one.

-so many jobs with the same stuff, small variations doesnt change it's the same thing over and over again.

I agree that the devs have gone a bit too far with the spam-burst mechanic on tanks. I am fine to a point with it and I think that with the combat design that all tanks should have their burst periods, but there has to be enough variation to make them not feel the same. I think they did an okay job with the Requiescat+Holy Spirit+Confiteor spam-burst, changing it up just enough that it feels fairly different. However like I said earlier, I think that for WAR and DRK they need to make the burst mechanics even more complex than that for all the reasons I went over already.

-i can't rely on muscle memory for this and i tryed but i have to constantly count the amount of hits im doing wich i find pretty annoying for both mentally and muscle memory since i could end pushing the same button more than necesary.

That's interesting, I personally find that I don't need any muscle memory for Delirium. I just spam the ability as much as I can during the duration while weaving oGCDs and as soon as I see the buff drop off I go back to my regular rotation. I don't even really think about the spam and just do it. I guess that could be chalked up to being a sort of "muscle memory" but it definitely feels more "thoughtless" than even cycling through my basic combo using muscle-memory.

See we are more in agreement than you may have initially realized

I also know that English is not your first language and I in no way fault you for it. Honestly overall I would say that your English is very good for not being a native speaker. I have seen many Americans that have English as their first language that are far worse at it than you are.
I will also not deny that I can speak and write in a manner that I like to think of as more detailed and in-depth, others may just regard it as being "overly wordy". That's no fault of yours and I can definitely see how it could be especially difficult for a non-native English speaker.

The main thing that I was alluding to is a habit that I see many people fall into on the internet, where people immediately assume and take the position of "you're wrong" with other people and speak or respond to them in that way which tends to not come across very well.
This isn't just you, it very common on the forums and you don't always respond to people like that, I just felt in this instance that your response was a bit like that.
But no harm, no foul. You realized you may have been distracted and rushed judgement, and openly admitted it which is admirable and better than many I have encountered.

[shao32]

That's interesting, I personally find that I don't need any muscle memory for Delirium. I just spam the ability as much as I can during the duration while weaving oGCDs and as soon as I see the buff drop off I go back to my regular rotation. I don't even really think about the spam and just do it. I guess that could be chalked up to being a sort of "muscle memory" but it definitely feels more "thoughtless" than even cycling through my basic combo using muscle-memory.

yeah i don't mean that inner delirium needs muscle memory, it's more about how you can't rely on it and since i can't depend of my muscle memory to dealt with it, I have to count the animations to keep the track of on what bloodspiller i am to don't waste GCD time by accident wich i find repetitive and pretty annoying for my finger and my mind having to watch the same again and again and again. i respect the ones who love that but is not for me saddly, the only version of inner spam i tolerate is the MCH one bcs it's way more faster, the animation is not bad since it's a gun and im weaving 1 of the 2 diferent oGCD in middle constantly witch means way more visual variation, but mostly the speed bcs it's comparable to use 3 normal GCD and still im kinda ugh against it despite i love how the MCH flows right now.

See we are more in agreement than you may have initially realized

I also know that English is not your first language and I in no way fault you for it. Honestly overall I would say that your English is very good for not being a native speaker. I have seen many Americans that have English as their first language that are far worse at it than you are.
I will also not deny that I can speak and write in a manner that I like to think of as more detailed and in-depth, others may just regard it as being "overly wordy". That's no fault of yours and I can definitely see how it could be especially difficult for a non-native English speaker.

The main thing that I was alluding to is a habit that I see many people fall into on the internet, where people immediately assume and take the position of "you're wrong" with other people and speak or respond to them in that way which tends to not come across very well.
This isn't just you, it very common on the forums and you don't always respond to people like that, I just felt in this instance that your response was a bit like that.
But no harm, no foul. You realized you may have been distracted and rushed judgement, and openly admitted it which is admirable and better than many I have encountered.

I appreciate you understanding ^^

[Aurelius2625]

The thing about DRK: it ought to have Delirium feed both mana and blood, like it did before. That way, DRK's burst comes in different blood and mana spenders. Those blood and mana spenders should have different effects on them, in that DRK's burst is different than PLD's with the application of their DoT twice under FoF, and their Req, they have two mini bursts. WAR has it's unga bunga which is really dumb but...it's where we are now... GNB has it's management of CD's within NM every sixty seconds.

DRK's burst ought to be managing its resources and having an extending period of quick resource generation to simply spend more potency during raid buffs.

[MiraAlora]

This got a bit more attention than I thought it would. Some really great discussion here!

[Ultimatecalibur]

Might as well make The Blackest Night not cost MP in exchange for not generating Dark Arts if you also want to remove Vengeance's counter attack damage...

TBN is pretty much the only way to do "counter attack" procs that maintains MT/OT dps balance due to the gain being on the mitigation side rather than the dps side. The damage dealt versus mp cost ratio is identical between TBN->DA+EoS and just using EoS by itself, but TBN->DA+EoS is a gain of 25% a party members hp in mitigation over just using EoS. I would actually like to see all 4 tanks get similar dps neutral mitigation gain counter mechanics in the future, but I also do not want Drk to loose this bit of uniqueness.

Vengence is an exceedingly minute dps increase (in a fair number of fights it wouldn't even increase dps at all) and the counter attack is mostly fluff to justify the name right now. SE could drop the counter attack and it wouldn't noticeably change Warrior dps.

[DRKoftheAzure]

TBN is pretty much the only way to do "counter attack" procs that maintains MT/OT dps balance due to the gain being on the mitigation side rather than the dps side. The damage dealt versus mp cost ratio is identical between TBN->DA+EoS and just using EoS by itself, but TBN->DA+EoS is a gain of 25% a party members hp in mitigation over just using EoS. I would actually like to see all 4 tanks get similar dps neutral mitigation gain counter mechanics in the future, but I also do not want Drk to loose this bit of uniqueness.

Mitigation gain is good but as everyone has proven that DPS and self/group healing is must have to clear any content with enrage timers. And with TBN being DPS Neutral at best and DPS loss at worst, the mitigation gain generally doesn't seem worth it, ESPECIALLY with the average player. If TBN was DPS Neutral at worst and DPS gain at best, then the mitigation gain would always be worth it, but it's not.

[Hierro]

Mitigation gain is good but as everyone has proven that DPS and self/group healing is must have to clear any content with enrage timers. And with TBN being DPS Neutral at best and DPS loss at worst, the mitigation gain generally doesn't seem worth it, ESPECIALLY with the average player. If TBN was DPS Neutral at worst and DPS gain at best, then the mitigation gain would always be worth it, but it's not.

There are a good number of issues with making TBN a DPS gain, such as how it'd encourage selfish play by potentially running into avoidable AoEs with vulnerability stacks as a consequences. This would make healers need to spend additional GCDs on healing, and that is already too big a DPS loss by whatever DRK might gain in the long run. It would also increase the discrepancy between skill floor and ceiling, when already there exist a good number of hurdles to separate the good from the mediocre.

I'm so baffled as to why you'd want TBN neutral at worst. You'd end up with a tank that is significantly tankier than the competition at no cost. Imagine, for half the time you have 25% more health than the rest of your peers, and FOR FREE. Is that balanced? Not in the slightest. Just git gud and learn to TBN for tank busters.

[DRKoftheAzure]

There are a good number of issues with making TBN a DPS gain, such as how it'd encourage selfish play by potentially running into avoidable AoEs with vulnerability stacks as a consequences. This would make healers need to spend additional GCDs on healing, and that is already too big a DPS loss by whatever DRK might gain in the long run. It would also increase the discrepancy between skill floor and ceiling, when already there exist a good number of hurdles to separate the good from the mediocre.

I'm so baffled as to why you'd want TBN neutral at worst. You'd end up with a tank that is significantly tankier than the competition at no cost. Imagine, for half the time you have 25% more health than the rest of your peers, and FOR FREE. Is that balanced? Not in the slightest. Just git gud and learn to TBN for tank busters.

If I actually thought DRK to be fun, I wouldn't be asking for TBN to neutral at worst if the devs do plan on keeping the sucky Shadowbringers DRK we have right now. And I would have been using TBN on Tankbusters anyway because I'm not THAT selfish. And I also would have also have asked to make the recast timer 5 seconds longer if people are going to use it like you just suggested though it might as well be 30 second recast at this rate...

[RadicalPesto]

Mitigation gain is good but as everyone has proven that DPS and self/group healing is must have to clear any content with enrage timers. And with TBN being DPS Neutral at best and DPS loss at worst, the mitigation gain generally doesn't seem worth it, ESPECIALLY with the average player. If TBN was DPS Neutral at worst and DPS gain at best, then the mitigation gain would always be worth it, but it's not.

Dark Knight has been in every world first group this expansion because of how strong its personal mitigation is. You're completely misunderstanding the importance of DPS vs. mitigation to claim mitigation is not relevant compared to DPS, when instead it's excess mitigation that isn't relevant compared to DPS. TBN helps provide an extremely solid baseline in terms of the mandatory mitigation every encounter or big pull requires, and making it a DPS gain will result in DPS optimization for DRK being based around bad play and deliberately being hit by AoEs.

TBN is the single best individual mitigation skill in the game. It doesn't need to be a DPS button.

[Awful]

Mitigation gain is good but as everyone has proven that DPS and self/group healing is must have to clear any content with enrage timers. And with TBN being DPS Neutral at best and DPS loss at worst, the mitigation gain generally doesn't seem worth it, ESPECIALLY with the average player. If TBN was DPS Neutral at worst and DPS gain at best, then the mitigation gain would always be worth it, but it's not.

Then you clearly dont know how to use TBN or you waste it, TBN lines up in almost every TB scenario so far this xpac, not to mention back in E4S you could Rampart + TBN to eat 1 Stonecrusher then use LD to eat the rest with the double tank stack mechanic trivializing it during MGR or Fault Line you easily had TBN if you were orange. Even during E5S every crippling blow there is TBN available and during thunderstorm if I so choose with Dark Mind, the mitigation on TBN is so strong and in the right hands is just amazing.

But mitigation isn't worth it though right?