Holy now a bannable spell.

[Wavaryen]

Its the principle behind the action that is raising eyebrows. If we take the OP at their word (and mind you I typically dont most times cause it's usually a case of someone doing a lot more than something innocuous that results in the ban) Someone literally reported and got someone suspended for using an action in the game because they found it annoying. The issue here isnt about the mechanics of hte spell, if its in the right spot or not, or anything of that nature. Its purely about "This action annoyed me, so I reported and they got suspended." If you take this logic and play it out, it means any action is bannable. Dont like someone using their emotes: Banned. Dont like someone doing crafting actions: Banned. Dont like people playing music using the bard action: Banned.

And why not? Afterall, all these actions can be considered annoying and be subject to a ban. And how can you argue against it because the precedent was set. It gets more problematic because now people with bad intentions can justifiably abuse the report function for their own fun. Let's not beat around the bush here, there are plenty of players who would get a kick of getting someone else suspended and a few who would actively seek out players to suspend.

This is the problem. Youre saying it's justified is overly simplistic about the nuance of this having repercussions down the road for other players.

Because you got to look behind intent of said action.

If you are playing said song, the music was added for players to play said music for themselves and others. So that action is deemed acceptable.


Spamming Holy in the city. Does not fall into that area. Because that spell is used for combat, and that area combat is not needed.

[Saccharin]

I'm interested in this train of thought actually, because I did have someone /tell me before to go meld somewhere else because I was flooding their chat log...

I just ignored them because I was standing right next to a market board and buying small stacks or materia, attempting overmelds, buying more materia, attempting more overmelds, etc.

Shortly after they sent me the /tell I finally finished the pentameld I was working on and at that point I left.

But like... does that mean that person had a "valid" reason to file a complaint?

I would hazard a guess and the person who got banned had one of those macros where they add a chat line when they hit the spell. I'd ban for one of those.

[frostmagemari]

Is you being sensitive to sensitive people any different? Stop being so sensitive!!!! I'm sure nothing in this world annoys you right? Everyone is annoyed by something, some people seem to think their annoyances is more important than others and call others sensitive. This community have VERY sensitive people indeed. lmao

Actually, that's not correct at all. Most people don't call others sensitive because they're annoyed by things that they, themselves, are not; people normally will call someone sensitive because of their reaction to said action. I am annoyed by many things in game, i find many things that many people do annoying; I however do not resort to reporting them on those grounds even when i could make a case for it.
Punishing people for annoying me is not something i enjoy doing, but many people in the XIV community do seem to enjoy that; in fact, a great many seem to revel in someone getting punished for something that is essentially inconsequential to any of the parties that were involved.

[Melichoir]

Because you got to look behind intent of said action.

If you are playing said song, the music was added for players to play said music for themselves and others. So that action is deemed acceptable.


Spamming Holy in the city. Does not fall into that area. Because that spell is used for combat, and that area combat is not needed.

We dont live in a system of intent and you should know this well enough. One person's fun is another person's annoyance. If I stand next to you, pick fife, and play the highest pitched notes back and forth in a loose tune, is that harassment or just part of the game? How can you tell, let alone the GM? I can legitimately say Im just playing it for fun and tryin stuff out.

This is my point, and the core issue. You cant tell intent, and it's not about the skill and it's use, its about the how a player feels regarding another player. It doesnt matter about location or intent, it only matters how Player A feels about Player B. Pelotan isnt a combat ability, and it too would fall into the category of abuse based on what occurred. Or flipping things around, if I am running around playing Fife in a field, can someone report me cause it's annoying? I mean, Fife isnt a combat skill and has no place out in the world. If this was an action that the Devs did not want to occur at all, they couldve disabled combat skills within the city. It's not like skills arent already coded into categories as it is, or that they dont already have the functionality built into the game as it were.

Hell, speaking of intent, what is considered spam. Is twice in a city spam? Three Times? Four Times? If someone reported cause its annoying and harassment, doesnt only once matter? What if its not even teh same spell. Lets say youre using BLU and you shooting of a few spells to show them off or whatever, does that count? What if Im just having fun with a group of people in a corner and someone runs by on their way to a quest and sees me using unleash a few times. that Bannable? What if Im using pelotan a few times cause I keep missing who Im trying to apply it to. Does that count as ban worthy?

See, you dont know the intent of the player in question, you dont know what exactly counts as spam, you dont know the circumstances of the situation, and you are fairly selective of "What counts and what doesnt" based on your own personal interpretations, and not what actually happened. To the best of our knowledge, the GM issues a 3 day suspension for someone using Holy at least more than once in a city at the behest of another player who thought it was annoying. That's it. So explain to me why youre so sure that your interpretation is the correct one and that the issue isnt a GM setting a precedent that using skills in city can get you suspended.

I would hazard a guess and the person who got banned had one of those macros where they add a chat line when they hit the spell. I'd ban for one of those.

I woudlnt be surprised. I typically give the benefit of the doubt to the GMs when threads like this come up simply because they typically dont ban players over innocuous things like this. Theyll give you a warning if they bother at all. More often than not the OP in these types of threads tends to leave out some crucial information to bolster their position. That being said, if everything is legit, than this is way to much IMO and a bit out of line for the GMs.

[SturmChurro]

Man this community really has some VERY sensitive people.

I won't report someone for spamming holy in a city, or emote spamming (Yes, they ban for emote spamming too). But God does it feel good to see one of those annoyances banned. People should already know how heavy-handed GMs are in this game, and most other games by the way. It's not exclusive to FFXIV. I got an account warning for ESO last month for "spamming", I was "spamming" "LFM" for a world boss while running a group of new players who wanted me to get more. I was even spacing my calls out. Doesn't matter, I probably got reported. It's just the mentality of players in general nowadays, same reason games like R6 siege have (or had - I haven't played in a couple years) a chat bot.

I would hazard a guess and the person who got banned had one of those macros where they add a chat line when they hit the spell. I'd ban for one of those.

Oh. My. God. Can you imagine if they did? With like the gigantic chat spam with the makeshift faces?

[Wavaryen]

[QUOTE=Melichoir;5299531]snip/QUOTE]


I mean you could break it down like that, but at the end of the day. If a large enough group of people report you..and the GMS consider that you have no reason to do said thing at that spot. I guess it is a gut call. I mean the GM did get it right, why would you have fun spamming holy in that spot. Why not do it in your room?

[SturmChurro]

It's a communal activity! A celebration! Completely innocent! They didn't do anything wrong!

[frostmagemari]

What? If you get annoyed by something you are sensitive to that subject. Doesn't matter if you react to it or not. Just because they do something about it doesn't make them any more sensitive than you.

Sensitivity to a subject is measured by reaction, not by simply acknowledging it. I can acknowledge that something annoys me, but if i don't let it interrupt my day, i'm obviously not sensitive in regards to that subject because it's not impacting me in a meaningful way.

Being annoyed by people spamming holy and reporting is no different then you being annoyed at sensitive people.

Actually, it is. Reporting something so inconsequential is showing that a person is overly sensitive to something happening. Spamming holy does not actually impact a person in any meaningful way, but instead of simply going on with their day, the person(s) in question made sure that someone would get punished for annoying them.

If people are purposely annoying people they deserve to be punish. You going to tell me if I troll the hell out of you you wouldn't feel i deserve to be punished even though you don't like reporting people? Noone is that saintly.

You can think that all you want, and i hope that when you get punished for annoying someone, the hammer of whatever authority is brought down you with its full force; and i expect a smile from you in response.
And yes, i would gladly tell you that, in more cases than not, you can attempt to troll me and i wouldn't report you. I can very much guarantee that you would get bored long before it would ever impact my day, and even then i simply only need ignore you and you're not even there to me anymore. You would go on with your day unfulfilled, knowing you wasted your time for zero response from me; and I would continue doing my activity of choice.

[PeppermintBrown]

I'm accepting of holy spam, because it looks beautiful and makes a nice sound.
If you don't like it just disable effects and mute sounds that aren't coming from 'yourself' in the settings. Would be pretty logic to do that, wouldn't it?

Why do you want to force me to play in a way I don't enjoy? Why is it theoretically bothering you what skills other people use? Is it okay again if I use one emote between two holys, that is not spamming right?

You know that there are quests even for battle classes inside cities, with mostly dummies to attack, how do you want to differentiate or tell if somebody is spamming skills for a quest or not?

It's like saying I'm not allowed to wear shiny armor in cities, they make my pc lag and it reduces my enjoyment of the game if its just layers of gearanimation over each other, just wear casual armor in cities. You see how ridiculous that is ? People get banned for nothing serious and with their 3 strike policy to perm ban its a dangerous territory to handle stuff like that.

That requires removing ALL spell effects/sounds from other people, you can't isolate a specific person's spells the same way you can keep a specific person from messaging you.

And even if you could, doesn't mean that doing said annoying spamming shouldn't be punishable. There's a very easy solution here. Don't be annoying twit and you won't get suspended. A 3 day suspension isn't exactly the end of the world, it's not like they banned the account outright or gave a long term suspension.

[frostmagemari]

One big super post

As a suggestion, i might suggest actually replying to a post instead of baking it into your original one. It makes for an actual conversation, and i won't always check back to this post to see if you added more onto it.

No I won't because I know for a fact that it's annoying you and trolling you will never get boring. I will keep on trolling you so you can't do your activity of choice. You can ignore me today but can't ignore me tomorrow, or the next day, or any day after that until you move servers are just quit the game. You are certainly not going to be able to continue doing your activity of choice. And what's going to happen? You going to end up reporting me or go to these forums and start crying about someone trolling you.

I'll bite. Tell me, what exactly can you stop me from doing?
If i do the story, you wouldn't be there in the cut scenes or know where i need to go next if i go to the next leg; nor would you be there during my instances.
If i craft, how would you stop me? My UI is a layer above any effect happening so i can always craft or get materials from my retainer.
If i gather, how would you stop me? We all have our own private nodes and even if you attempted to block me, i would still be able to click the nodes.
If i farm mobs, i would get put onto the loot table of anything i fight; so even if you attempted to farm faster than i did, i would only need to contribute to the kills and you will have aided me.
If i level lower classes, how would you get in my way? You could not sabotage fates, and you have no guarantee of getting into the dungeons that i enter into to attempt that there.
If i choose to RP, how would you stop that? If your text gets in my way, i would only need to ignore you until i'm done and perhaps make an in-character remark as to another drunkard needing to be rounded up. In fact, you would be adding to my banter.

So tell me.. How are you going to ruin my game? You have no power to do so.