Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Arthars disagrees.

Arthars got being for his behavior, not the parsing. And he deserved it.

[Outsane]

Whelp. Found the player that doesn't pull their weight in trials. lol.

[ReiMakoto]

oh boy... what has this devolved into...

1- It's pretty petty to use logs to prove a point + singling out a person publicly + base everything on 1 bad log. this is the same type of mentality that competitive gamers have that if you are a lower skill rank than me then your point is invalid. Stop this nonsense. You people are literally proving the point of how easy it is to use parsers as a way to put others down and which is what Yoshi P is trying to prevent. Thal's balls people. Open your eyes.

2 - Diablos your attitude has brought this upon yourself. You challenged people and they have took the challenge. Unfortunatly you're not getting what you expected out of it. I think you're getting enough %$^t so i'm leaving it here.

Im gonna give a slight disagree to point one, but only slightly. A lot of us here were trying to prove the point that its impossible for a casual player to know how they are doing and if they need improvement, unfortunatly this point has ended up being illustrated in the way you described but I think a few people are trying to make good points and not just put someone down

[jameseoakes]

Im gonna give a slight disagree to point one, but only slightly. A lot of us here were trying to prove the point that its impossible for a casual player to know how they are doing and if they need improvement, unfortunatly this point has ended up being illustrated in the way you described but I think a few people are trying to make good points and not just put someone down

I'd disagree, most of the comments have been pretty nasty and a lot of this thread has just been outright bullying, the other person might not of done themselves many favours but it's just been harassment for the most part, only one person has reached out to them and when they have they have had nice responses.

[CrocodileRocking]

Im gonna give a slight disagree to point one, but only slightly. A lot of us here were trying to prove the point that its impossible for a casual player to know how they are doing and if they need improvement, unfortunatly this point has ended up being illustrated in the way you described but I think a few people are trying to make good points and not just put someone down

What? The person definitely doesn't use their words properly but all I see in peoples response are passively agressively attacking said person.

They clearly admitted they were wrong but people keep on attacking them. What are they supposed to do...sit back and just watch others pull their name in the mud just because they dont like how that person said what they said? How does that make them any different that person?

Also they clearly stated they don't do extreme or savage and only do story stuff to go through the story. Why are people harping on their numbers? You can basically press one attack button to clear all that content if your gear is up to date.

My point of view on parsers.

I think they great. Whoever created them I can't thank them enough because it truly helps me get better because that's how I play.

But...people need to understand most people don't even care or think about what their numbers are especially the majority that doesn't even touch extreme or savage. I will never force anyone that plays that way to get gud because its not needed.

If you are a person that gets mad because strangers aren't playing their job properly and forcing your requirements on them in casual content you need to check yourself.

Do you go up to total strangers in real life telling them they need to get gud? I would think not Because you would get punched or bitch slapped.

Now if you started your own group or party you can make all the rules you want. Kick all your want and tell the person that joined your party they suck all you want because its your rules.

But don't go into dungeon finder and force your play style on anyone. You dont know what kind of situation the person on the other end is in. If you dont like that situation leave take that penalty, vote kick, etc and move on. There's rarely anything good about starting something that could become confrontational with a total stranger.

[Schan]

Im gonna give a slight disagree to point one, but only slightly. A lot of us here were trying to prove the point that its impossible for a casual player to know how they are doing and if they need improvement, unfortunatly this point has ended up being illustrated in the way you described but I think a few people are trying to make good points and not just put someone down

And I fully understand that disagreement. The game doesn't give you feedback when you're doing poorly. Except by killing your whole team which by then it's impossible to figure out who is underperforming. Parsers help with that but what you do with that after that...

The situation with Diablos is pitifull and I was only referring to how pro parse users are behaving. It is amusing how diablos is proving her point not by the content of her arguments but by the way people have taken up to the challenge regardless if it was intentional or not.

Abusing parsers is insanely easy. Be a responsible parser user. Use it for yourself and stop comparing yourself to others (unless you're approaching it with a learning mentality).

Basically what this whole thread has taught me is that discussing FFXIV parsers is basically the equivalent of the gun discussion in the USA.

[QT_Melon]

Yeah there's something to be said about stirring the hornet's nest. When I looked at the thread and mentioned "should have left well enough alone" I meant the initial comment made - people decided to interpret it different ways ie "God's gift to DPS" and then it went downhill from there. This isn't that I agree with their initial comment I just decided it wasn't enough to discuss - and hey let's move on.

It instead devolved into a "he/she started it" defense when I brought it up because it turned into the discussion in basically how I expected it to turn out.

Genuinely I want to help the player improve and see it in a different way, and honestly I expected my hopes to be dashed with the constant back and forth. The defense is "well we don't know each other - we just agree on something" isn't exactly correct. It's also seen as a "mob mentality" People in a mob don't necessarily have to know each other yes?

But since said player is willing to meet up with me, I'm willing to help. And it may be at this point I might be able to help them get in a better mindset, because honestly for both sides who would want to tolerate another person they decided to bicker with? No one wants to work in an environment like that.

But hey still happy to help.

[Melichoir]

...Basically what this whole thread has taught me is that discussing FFXIV parsers is basically the equivalent of the gun discussion in the USA.

And often like that gun debate, people who are ill informed are the ones who are the most gleeful about preventing them out of some misinformed belief or cited edge cases of abuses.

I would hazard that most people who parse arent typically toxic. Even among those that are, I would bet a good buck that the toxic ones tend to be on the lower end of the skill spectrum and use parsing as a cudgel to berate players so they appear more elite/skilled. This isnt the intended use of parsing, and is frankly more an indictment about players who are prone to be toxic will do so regardless of the tools available. The people who parse really well and clear things like TEA, UwU, or UCoB typically dont abuse other players for poor dps because it's either beneath them or they dont really care - they got their clears/orange parses and it's on display. This doesnt mean they wont grumble to friends or may try to avoid playing the more casual content, but that most of them wont waste their breath citing numbers at people.

[Penthea]

I'd disagree, most of the comments have been pretty nasty and a lot of this thread has just been outright bullying, the other person might not of done themselves many favours but it's just been harassment for the most part, only one person has reached out to them and when they have they have had nice responses.

I like to think I haven't been nasty. I have not called the player any names and barely commented on their performance. I kept my criticism on their attitude, which I believe is unhealthy for anyone to have regardless of skill level and the content. It isn't good for anyone to be very hostile at the mere idea of getting feedback.

I don't really care much about their dps. What I do care about is them trying to push the narrative that if you complain when there are no wipes you are being unreasonable. Having this attitude would, for example, force a healer to stay quiet even if they're struggling to keep a bad tank alive just because they happen to be good enough to carry them and prevent a wipe.

I truly believe the idea that you are not allowed to complain unless absolute worst outcome happens (a wipe) is a harmful attitude to have for the community as a whole. It doesn't matter what content you're doing, if your performance is causing other people to struggle or work much harder, then you are not entitled to be immune to criticism.

And it would be pointless for me to reach out to them because we don't even play on the same Data Centre. I don't think creating a lvl 1 alt would be beneficial to them.

[CrocodileRocking]

I like to think I haven't been nasty. I have not called the player any names and barely commented on their performance. I kept my criticism on their attitude, which I believe is unhealthy for anyone to have regardless of skill level and the content. It isn't good for anyone to be very hostile at the mere idea of getting feedback.

I don't really care much about their dps. What I do care about is them trying to push the narrative that if you complain when there are no wipes you are being unreasonable. Having this attitude would, for example, force a healer to stay quiet even if they're struggling to keep a bad tank alive just because they happen to be good enough to carry them and prevent a wipe.

I truly believe the idea that you are not allowed to complain unless absolute worst outcome happens (a wipe) is a harmful attitude to have for the community as a whole. It doesn't matter what content you're doing, if your performance is causing other people to struggle or work much harder, then you are not entitled to be immune to criticism.

And it would be pointless for me to reach out to them because we don't even play on the same Data Centre. I don't think creating a lvl 1 alt would be beneficial to them.

Oh you're definitely not innocent I'll tell you that.