5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[Hierro]

Does job "complexity" even matter? To what extent? Can you even measure or define it, consistently?

Don't you know? It's only the hottest buzzword when making any sort of uninformed critique! Can't think of a solid reason as to why X deserves Y? Toss in "muh complexity" and see the likes soar and heads nod!

[Khimer]

I don't like people and skill-heavy classes.

-Would you look at that 3 out of 8 jobs with raid buffs don't buff warrior whatsoever. Now lets take 1 party for example with sch, whm, drg, brd, mnk, dancer, gnb, war. Do you think its fair that that gnb in that party will get a considerably more of a dps boost than a warrior, on top of its already superior single target dps? That's what i call bad design.
-I guess you want to fix it by increasing potencies to make it on par with the others, now imagine we are in a party where warrior can benefit from all the buffs and now warrior's dps skyrockets.
-By removing DCrit they are killing 2 birds with 1 stone: melds(which STILL IS a problem, no matter how "insignificant") and perfectly balancing warrior for raid buffs.

At the end what im trying to say is change warrior its a torture to play,its rotation is not engaging whatsoever. In a perfect world there will no longer be FC spam and guaranteed DCrit. In a realistic, but still fantasy world there will be no DCrit. And change DRK while they're at it. Bring back HW DRK, i don't care about balance issues, about skill bloat issues, just bring it back, no one cares, no excuses. Just do it. Please Yoshi make the right decision.

[millktea]

I think you're the one that needs to stop at this point because everything regarding difficulty within this thread is entirely subjective. You're saying Warrior is the most complex but that is entirely untrue because just as *you* find it the most complex, others find it the least complex. There is no "extra thonking" that needs to be done unless *you yourself* require to do so. Just drop it and move on because you're clearly reaching a point where you're getting mad because someone else disagrees with you over a subject that is entirely opinionated.

The difficulty is subjective as some find static rotations easier than a priority system. Some find priority to be easier than static

But he is correct that warrior is more complex due to its fluctuation in priority and its strictness with IC/charges locking down its rotation, as well as its need to adapt to what is on the table with fast thinking. Yes, you do need to think about what you're doing.

Also, not all opinions are baseless. Informed opinions exist. You dismissing him simply by calling it an opinion is weak. There is factual information that can be used under informed opinion. Also saying something is "untrue" is wrong, and truths don't necessarily need to be fact.

Warriors problem isn't a simple rotation. Its that its rotation is empty. It doesn't have enough buttons (no UC, no BZ, no ToB under UP buff, no duality/self- synergy. It's not active enough, and its toolkit is sparse. It does not do enough damage based on the rule of defensive utility
and offensive damage output.

The top damage dealers have little to no utility. That's why they hit so hard. The highest defensive or supportive utility jobs hit softer. This was why pld got nerfed and why war and drk got buffed in SB. Let's be real: warrior doesn't have an OT ability. They use it for themself.

Maintaining eye is still complexity, juggling gauge, and even juggling your infuriate proc to use to gapclose or upheaval, or gain gauge in general, but still execute IC is still complexity, management of charges that aren't gapclosers is still complexity. Warrior is simple to get into, but still has a higher ceiling to optimize. Warrior was harder pre 4.2. It wasnt that hard, as it took about 20s to fill gauge. That's all you really needed to know. But it still required effort.

You could argue its complex, but sure, you can argue its not. War is rather easy. So is gunbreaker. Its funny. If I say a tank is complex, I'd choose ShB pld. Warrior used to have it, if you used its full toolkit. But that's the problem. Se took it away and didn't return it . Its still kind of there... but its minimal...

[Lucy_Pyre]

-snip-

If you think using Storm's Eye once every 30 seconds to keep the buff up and "managing gauge" (which is literally just "use Fell Cleave before Storm's Eye/Path if SE/SP would push you past 100") is complex then I really, really never want to see you try to optimize Summoner. Also, Warrior's rotation does not "fluctuate". It is almost entirely static, with the only thing changing is again if you need to replace SP with SE to keep uptime on the buff at a certain time in a fight. Other than that Warrior's rotation changes little if at all.

"Truths don't necessarily need to be fact" I'm sorry, but what? The only thing you're really correct about is the fact that "informed opinions do exist" which is true. Unfortunately, Khimer is about as far and away as is possible from having an informed opinion. If anything, his opinions come off as someone who has absolutely no idea how the job even functions at a high level of play, making entirely baseless claims about complexity and difficulty that are simply untrue.

-snip-

First of all, I never said any of what you put in that quote, so I would appreciate if you would cut out the blatant lying and two-faced nonsense.

Now that that is taken care of, three out of the eight buffs in the game don't affect WAR, and out of those three one of them has a severely reduced usefulness for tanks in general due to much lower budget of that particular stat, so it comes out to more around 2.5 out of 8 buffs that WAR cannot utilize.

Something else you seem to be completely not taking into consideration is that rDPS takes into account the player's personal adjusted DPS as well as DPS that was granted via raid buffs, and even when looking at rDPS Warrior is only around 250 DPS beneath Gunbreaker. Yes, it should be higher as I have already stated that it should be beneath Gunbreaker but above Paladin and Dark Knight, but 250 DPS is not this insurmountable margin that is going to be the difference between a group taking you on X job versus telling you to use Y or Z job instead.

You think that Warrior is not engaging to play. Once again, I and many others think the exact opposite. Also once again, you have said that you enjoy Gunbreaker. So I shall repeat myself and tell you to play Gunbreaker and leave my job alone.

[NyneSwordz]

War is not engaging to play. Should be fixed. Hopefully in 5.2.

[Nedkel]

Except it cucks warriors from half the raid buffs, and prevents you from optimizing damage on other tanks with determination melds. I don't know how many times i have to sat that, but THAT'S A BAD DESIGN. Staple like that cannot continue. Also warrior was kind of unique having 50% attack power buff that pacified you for 5 seconds after its duration, which was 20 second and not pesky 10, it was unique yes, i even enjoyed it, but they changed it, because it wasn't very good from optimization point. SO applying the same logic they should change IR now and remove DCrits.

War has the best invul in the game right now and is second best mitigating tank. I fail to see how he is being ignored by teams because of tiny parts of % of dps.

[Lucy_Pyre]

War has the best invul in the game right now and is second best mitigating tank. I fail to see how he is being ignored by teams because of tiny parts of % of dps.

That mitigation comes with a gigantic asterisk next to it, as the heavy "extra" mitigation that Warrior is capable of is entirely based around Nascent Flash, which is dependent entirely on what part in Warrior's rotation you are at at the given time of use. If it's during IR and/or you can use IC on it, you can heal an extremely significant amount of HP. If it isn't during that point your healing is near worthless. That said, yes Holmgang is by and far the best invuln.

[shao32]

Seems to be some kind of adjustments for pve WAR acording to reddit discord, lets hope they make WAR more fun for you guys.

[NyneSwordz]

Seems to be some kind of adjustments for pve WAR acording to reddit discord, lets hope they make WAR more fun for you guys.

Me too. Tbh, if they just made nf self targetable, ic apply debuff like in pvp instead of doing more damage than fc, have mt combo into steel cyclone onstead of overpower, id be pretty happy with the job.

[TouchandFeel]

Seems to be some kind of adjustments for pve WAR acording to reddit discord, lets hope they make WAR more fun for you guys.

The only mention of WAR in the live letter that I have heard of is an adjustment to Holmgang in PvP.