Thread: 5.0 WAR is a disappointment

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

So unless you can personally understand Japanese and what Yoshida is saying at that point in the livestream I'm somewhat uncertain on if I'd believe that, as the reports are rather conflicting.

I am Japanese, or a Hafu if you want to get technical, and although my Japanese is pretty terrible I can often pick out enough to have a general idea of what is being talked about.

At that point in the video that I mentioned, he specifically mentions WAR and small adjustments. Right after that he specifically points out that they are now going to talk about PvP changes. Then while talking about PvP changes he mentions Holmgang.

Now it is entirely possible that he preemptively rambled about there being WAR changes before explicitly going into the PvP stuff, but the order in which he said stuff leads me to believe that he was talking about PvE changes.

It should have been apparent from my post that you quoted that I was drawing my conclusion directly from the live letter itself, especially seeing how I provided a time-stamp for when he says it, and was not basing it off of second-hand summaries online.

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

ahcktually...

I can see you tipping that fedora hard to them m'laydies.

First off, no shit, missing any major part of your DPS rotation causes you to lack DPS. That applies to every job that has most of their damage applied to that specific condition.

Second, it's the imbalance between how much is behind that IR + FC spam and the rest of the kit. The Inner Chaos addition really didn't add much to fix that. It is just another thing that I get to do during my 1-2-3 dot while I wait for IR to come up so I can do my real combo and real damage.

That's what I am talking about.

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

I can see you tipping that fedora hard to them m'laydies.

First off, no shit, missing any major part of your DPS rotation causes you to lack DPS. That applies to every job that has most of their damage applied to that specific condition.

Second, it's the imbalance between how much is behind that IR + FC spam and the rest of the kit. The Inner Chaos addition really didn't add much to fix that. It is just another thing that I get to do during my 1-2-3 dot while I wait for IR to come up so I can do my real combo and real damage.

That's what I am talking about.

You might wanna re-read everything I've said. Furthermore, you can't "spam" Inner Chaos in the slightest, as you get only a couple uses of the skill every 90 second cycle. You also cannot compared the basic weaponskills to a DoT as they are not only functionally different, but don't even serve the same purpose. Your standard weaponskill combos serve as your downtime, very similar to how Ninja works in that once Trick Attack ends you are just spamming your Aeolian Edge/Armor Crush combos while waiting for your mudras to recharge and Trick to come off CD.

Furthermore, just looking at one of my Titan clears and ability uses, it brings up some interesting bits of information.

In terms of total percentages of damage dealt, Heavy Swing, Main, Storm's Path, and Storm's Eye total out to make up 29.03% of my damage dealt, HS = 6.50%, Maim = 9.86%, SP = 7.83%, SE = 4.84%. Meanwhile, Fell Cleave & Inner chaos make up a combined total of 48.33% of my damage dealt, with Fell Cleave equaling 30.42% and Inner Chaos equaling 17.91%. This means that in terms of total damage dealt your basic combo comes out to roughly only 1%-1.5% less damage dealt over the course of a fight than Fell Cleave and its "spam". Now, this will be a little bit skewered more in favor of Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos in certain fights such as Hades EX where you have large portions of downtime that allow you to skip your "recharge" phase and go right back into Inner Release and Inner Chaos, but those instances are less common than fights where you have to go through the whole of your downtime portions of your rotation.

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

You might wanna re-read everything I've said. Furthermore, you can't "spam" Inner Chaos in the slightest, as you get only a couple uses of the skill every 90 second cycle. You also cannot compared the basic weaponskills to a DoT as they are not only functionally different, but don't even serve the same purpose. Your standard weaponskill combos serve as your downtime, very similar to how Ninja works in that once Trick Attack ends you are just spamming your Aeolian Edge/Armor Crush combos while waiting for your mudras to recharge and Trick to come off CD.

Slow down there for a second.

I didn’t say I could spam Inner Chaos. Look at the part where I wrote how it is another thing I do outside of my “main combo” or Inner Release + Fell Cleave spam. Hence, you do Inner Chaos outside of that IR window since it is auto DHCRIT and it has a cool-down timer. There is an “imply” I know enough you cannot spam Inner Chaos.

Second, I know what Damage Over Time is. I am using DOT to describe the basic 1-2-3 combo as an INSULT to the combo. I know it isn’t a DOT. Thunder is a DOT. 1-2-3 combos is not a DOT by the general definition in this game.

Yes, I understand the purpose of standard weaponskills that serve during downtime. It’s the same for every job that has a standard weaponskill filler while we wait for the job specific condition(s) to be met. Not to mention, those weaponskills can either build to that job specific condition (ie: meter), and or serve additional purposes (ie: damage buffs, small HP cure amount, etc.).

These are things I don’t have to explain to you, you know that. Just like you necessarily don’t have to explain these things to me.

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

In terms of total percentages of damage dealt, Heavy Swing, Main, Storm's Path, and Storm's Eye total out to make up 29.03% of my damage dealt, HS = 6.50%, Maim = 9.86%, SP = 7.83%, SE = 4.84%. Meanwhile, Fell Cleave & Inner chaos make up a combined total of 48.33% of my damage dealt, with Fell Cleave equaling 30.42% and Inner Chaos equaling 17.91%. This means that in terms of total damage dealt your basic combo comes out to roughly only 1%-1.5% less damage dealt over the course of a fight than Fell Cleave and its "spam". Now, this will be a little bit skewered more in favor of Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos in certain fights such as Hades EX where you have large portions of downtime that allow you to skip your "recharge" phase and go right back into Inner Release and Inner Chaos, but those instances are less common than fights where you have to go through the whole of your downtime portions of your rotation.

I wish you only presented this within your initial comment to me. Doing that would have changed my tone and made me question my perspective earlier.

I will take in an review what you have presented me when I have greater time, since you have obviously have taken the time out to not only present factual and calculated data, but you put it into a format as best as you can that fits into the forum medium. On top of that, I am a stranger who will not exist to you past today, and you are putting in an over-amount of effort for someone who you never met. It would be insulting to you if I didn’t review what you have presented.

Kudos for you and thank you for doing that.

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

-snip-

I am putting in effort to defend my main job because I genuinely love it for what it is, and especially because certain people in this thread who I have been debating with for the past number of days are more or less only whining about said job while having a clear misunderstanding of how it properly functions, yet continue to push their drivel as if their understanding of the job is greater than what it has actually been shown to be (and no amount of raw data is going to change their minds, but I'm stubborn). As for your IC comment, you're right. I went back and read your original comment and I guess I just read the "IR + FC" part and stopped reading at "IR +" and put "IC" in there in my head.

On a different note, continuing on the point I made in the Titan clear and damage percentages I was talking about, here's the numbers from a Hades EX I just did for comparison, since that fight has a significant amount of downtime which heavily favors Warrior and its burst style with its short phases and multiple transitions.

Fell Cleave - 32.28% of total damage dealt
Inner Chaos = 20.02%
Combined total = 52.3%

Heavy Swing = 5.85%
Maim = 8.50%
Storm's Path = 5.43%
Storm's Eye = 5.37%
Combined total = 25.15%

Now, one important thing to note here was that Storm's Eye had a crit rate or 36.4% compared to Storm's Path's 26.1%, which slightly skewered those two to be more close in terms of damage dealt. However, as we can see our basic combos this time are a much larger margin behind Fell Cleave, and are just under 50% of the total damage dealt as Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos combined. This is due to the fact that Hades is made up almost entirely of 60-120 second long phases, with multiple 45-60 second long transition phases in between. This greatly favors the Warrior over the other three tanks as it allows us a significant amount of time for Inner Release and Inner Chaos to come off of cooldown while the entire party is unable to attack the boss, which is why WAR is significantly ahead of the other tanks for this fight and this fight only.

Originally Posted by Khimer

They said it'll be minor changes. So probably smol potency buffs, smthn about NF and eye buff timer. Maybe even they'll add eye buff to mythril tempest.

What if those minor changes are just Holmgang not droping when you target a dying mob with it? Or when your target is too far away it doesn't trigger?

Tho, I would also prefer SE duration buff...

Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

What if those minor changes are just Holmgang not droping when you target a dying mob with it? Or when your target is too far away it doesn't trigger?

Tho, I would also prefer SE duration buff...

Holmgang already got buffed from 6 to 8 seconds, it's more than fine as is and neither needs nor deserves any sort of buff.

Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

Holmgang already got buffed from 6 to 8 seconds, it's more than fine as is and neither needs nor deserves any sort of buff.

Holmgang change is probably a pvp change. And yes, there will be pve changes as well.

Only things i can imagine WAR'd get in 5.2 would be simple stuff. Eye's duration increased to 40s. Maybe an increase to Glint's mitigation to 15%?
Stuff like decoupling Nascent from RI and the clunkiness of Infuriate's interaction while under the effect of IR isn't something I trust SE to not botch.