5.1 NIN slowed down and uninteresting

[Kleeya]

A more fitting example would be that your arm was broken, that the doctors failed to fix it, but did successfully so for hundreds of other people. And that you are now asking for all of those who were healed correctly to be back to the time when their arm was broken, just because it has become worse for you XD

[Solowing]

A more fitting example would be that your arm was broken, that the doctors failed to fix it, but did successfully so for hundreds of other people. And that you are now asking for all of those who were healed correctly to be back to the time when their arm was broken, just because it has become worse for you XD

What? You made Ninja viable in dps by stripping of it class identity? I fell in love with ninja due to its fast paced spontaneous nature since they've released it, stuck by the class for ARR, HW, and SB and the start of SHB. and now they strip it of any complexity, slowed it down, and its oGCD nature was neutered. But because the damage was fixxed, and people can play it on sub-par internet speeds now means the class was fixed? Dispite the class not longer have many of its signature traits?

[Ryaz]

What? You made Ninja viable in dps by stripping of it class identity? I fell in love with ninja due to its fast paced spontaneous nature since they've released it, stuck by the class for ARR, HW, and SB and the start of SHB. and now they strip it of any complexity, slowed it down, and its oGCD nature was neutered. But because the damage was fixxed, and people can play it on sub-par internet speeds now means the class was fixed? Dispite the class not longer have many of its signature traits?

Except they didn't remove any of the class identity? Yeah, its slowed down a bit, but it is still a job about using Trick Attack and Ninjutsus. Nothing has changed on that front. You still need to keep up your Huton. You still need to hit your TA window. Ninja's whole class identity wasn't just apm. All of it's original traits are still there, just minorly slowed down.

[Solowing]

Except they didn't remove any of the class identity? Yeah, its slowed down a bit, but it is still a job about using Trick Attack and Ninjutsus. Nothing has changed on that front. You still need to keep up your Huton. You still need to hit your TA window. Ninja's whole class identity wasn't just apm. All of it's original traits are still there, just minorly slowed down.

So again, was weaving, not removed? Yes
Did its complexity get removed? Yes
Was it slowed down? Yes

Weaving as a playstyle, is gone, we play like a melee dancer now..

Complexity was removed, we had the different timed cds had to mix things up and try to line abilities up for the next trick attack, that is no longer a thing, everything lines up to trick attack now. Ninjutsu also became relegated to mainly Trick attack usage, if Trick attack isn't up, why use ninjutsu? Shuriken prior to the rework got used because it was a quick ninjutsu before jumping back into my combos, now? Why use it? It does less damage then Raiton why not use Raiton? Because ill just wait for Trick Attack to use it since it benefits from trick attacks. Hell Shuriken shouldn't exist anymore because it doesn't have use anymore!

So yea, the class had is identity removed.. Im glad you enjoy it now, but this isnt the class that i fell for when they released it. Its slower, less engaging and requires less thought to play

[Wiccan692015]

i disagree with your comment here Ninjas still have a identity and a good one too, mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage, dont forget that ninjas are also one of the only classes to get a natural flip jump with their weapons pulled out which really helps to avoid aoes, in betewwn the cooldown on that combo i use different comos for different situations whether they are AOE or single target, ninjas have identities just got to know what to use and when..

[Solowing]

i disagree with your comment here Ninjas still have a identity and a good one too, mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage, dont forget that ninjas are also one of the only classes to get a natural flip jump with their weapons pulled out which really helps to avoid aoes, in betewwn the cooldown on that combo i use different comos for different situations whether they are AOE or single target, ninjas have identities just got to know what to use and when..

Thats the problem, everything lines up to Trick Attack currently, where prior to the rework, you got to use your abilities in the mid-fight and have re-align everything into the next Trick Attack, which was far more engaging!

mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage,



Why not do, Suiton>Spinning Edge>Gust Slash>Mug>Trick Attack>Bunshin>Aeolian Edge>Dream within a Dream>Spinning Edge>Assassinate>Gust Slash>Aeolian Edge>Bhavacakra >Ten-chi-Jin>Meisui>Bhavacakra>Kassatsu>Hyosho Ranryu?

You're throwing any oGCD into your Trick Attack without thought...Thats the crux of my problem, the class has been slowed down, had its complexity reduced, and its weaving aspect with ninjutsu removed. But looking how you use your abilities and how i use mine, you dont know what to do with it, and these changes are more appeasing to you. I find these changes annoying because it REDUCED complexity

[Lucy_Pyre]

Thats the problem, everything lines up to Trick Attack currently, where prior to the rework, you got to use your abilities in the mid-fight and have re-align everything into the next Trick Attack, which was far more engaging!

mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage,



Why not do, Suiton>Spinning Edge>Gust Slash>Mug>Trick Attack>Bunshin>Aeolian Edge>Dream within a Dream>Spinning Edge>Assassinate>Gust Slash>Aeolian Edge>Bhavacakra >Ten-chi-Jin>Meisui>Bhavacakra>Kassatsu>Hyosho Ranryu?

You're throwing any oGCD into your Trick Attack without thought...Thats the crux of my problem, the class has been slowed down, had its complexity reduced, and its weaving aspect with ninjutsu removed. But looking how you use your abilities and how i use mine, you dont know what to do with it, and these changes are more appeasing to you. I find these changes annoying because it REDUCED complexity

Looking at your combo, you don't seem to know what you're doing either and are also throwing things into Trick without any thought applied to it. Where's your Shadow Fang? Where are your Raiton's? Not only are your weaves done at poor and/or outright bad times, clipping more GCDs than is necessary, you're outright missing a very significant amount of DPS from your Trick window because you're missing not only arguably your most important GCD (Shadow Fang) but Raiton casts as well.

[ForteNightshade]

Complexity was removed, we had the different timed cds had to mix things up and try to line abilities up for the next trick attack, that is no longer a thing, everything lines up to trick attack now. Ninjutsu also became relegated to mainly Trick attack usage, if Trick attack isn't up, why use ninjutsu? Shuriken prior to the rework got used because it was a quick ninjutsu before jumping back into my combos, now? Why use it? It does less damage then Raiton why not use Raiton? Because ill just wait for Trick Attack to use it since it benefits from trick attacks. Hell Shuriken shouldn't exist anymore because it doesn't have use anymore!

Raiton has always been better. The only reason you used Fuma in Stormblood was due to the passive trait Ninja had and the clipping caused the difference to mis-align things enough Fuma came out slightly ahead unless you had like 10 ping. With the buff to Raiton in Shadowbringers, you simply dealt with the clipping. Fuma died before this rework even happened. Furthermore, you have to use mudras outside Trick otherwise you'll overcap on charges.

I also don't see how everything lining up properly makes the job worse. Having to fix alignment issues isn't engaging, it's annoying, especially when you're trying to coordinate with other players whose buffs may not work in your windows. The end result is you do something less optimal because it benefits everyone else.

[Solowing]

Raiton has always been better. The only reason you used Fuma in Stormblood was due to the passive trait Ninja had and the clipping caused the difference to mis-align things enough Fuma came out slightly ahead unless you had like 10 ping. With the buff to Raiton in Shadowbringers, you simply dealt with the clipping. Fuma died before this rework even happened. Furthermore, you have to use mudras outside Trick otherwise you'll overcap on charges.

I also don't see how everything lining up properly makes the job worse. Having to fix alignment issues isn't engaging, it's annoying, especially when you're trying to coordinate with other players whose buffs may not work in your windows. The end result is you do something less optimal because it benefits everyone else.

So not having to align my abilities is fun? The class is far less interesting, because theirs less to do, less to think about and less to consider, and if it frustrated you, you have the Dancer job, rather then the ninja being turned into a DNC 2.0

[ForteNightshade]

So not having to align my abilities is fun? The class is far less interesting, because theirs less to do, less to think about and less to consider, and if it frustrated you, you have the Dancer job, rather then the ninja being turned into a DNC 2.0

It's certainly better for optimizing the job. So, yes. I do like that because I actually like these changes means I should just have played something else. While it hasn't been my main, I've played Ninja regularly for years now. Prior to 5.0, it was fine but Shadowbringers Ninja was a complete mess of a job. I'd rather have mudras that are partly similar to Dancer steps than ones that make me constantly clip.

I'll agree, Shadowfang is boring now but that's about it.