Thread: 5.1 NIN slowed down and uninteresting

Starting to level my ninja again and liking the changes so far. It still flows smoothly and I like the slightly slowed down gameplay.

I have a question-- what is the Raiton vs Fuma situation now with the changes? When do you ever even use fuma outside of something like Ten Chi Jin?

Originally Posted by Ryaz

Starting to level my ninja again and liking the changes so far. It still flows smoothly and I like the slightly slowed down gameplay.

I have a question-- what is the Raiton vs Fuma situation now with the changes? When do you ever even use fuma outside of something like Ten Chi Jin?

Use Raiton unless you're in Kassatsu - in which case use Hyosho Ranryu - or when you need to put up Suiton/Huton. Fuma is, like you suspected, only used during TCJ(and at low levels obv).

Originally Posted by SJWhat

Also we are still keeping Doton up right? I was under the impression that the only Ninjutsu we don't use is Hyoton.

NIN never really "kept Doton up". You use it on trash packs/adds if they'll live long enough to take enough ticks and that usually means only one cast. You can also toss a Doton pre-pull, if your party is willing to wait, but outside of that it's a loss on a single target. Single target TCJ is Fuma, Raiton, Suiton and you Meisui the buff for an extra Bava - it's no longer worth to Fuma, Katon, Doton on bosses like in SB.

2+ targets, if you've already dropped Doton(or you won't get enough ticks) you replace Raiton with Katon and Hyosho with Goka.

A number of questions, how is shadowfang recast 70 secs and duration itself 30 secs? What's the rationale of having the timings as such? Kinda feel they shouldn't let it have such a big gap in downtime.

Also, back then then combos weren't that static , now u just hit 1 2 3 or 1 2 4 which is pretty straight forward. These all had nth to do with ping fixing.

On the brighter side, you can cast ninjutus more smooth and their potency is increased which is nice. Ninki skills on the other hand feels less satisfying but their are ogcd so i guess it's fine. Overall, ninja became more casual and i can see more ppl picking it up while enthusiasts who liked the high old APM shunning these changes.

Originally Posted by finalheaven

A number of questions, how is shadowfang recast 70 secs and duration itself 30 secs? What's the rationale of having the timings as such? Kinda feel they shouldn't let it have such a big gap in downtime.

Also, back then then combos weren't that static , now u just hit 1 2 3 or 1 2 4 which is pretty straight forward. These all had nth to do with ping fixing.

Shadowfang is basically meant to work the same as GNB's Sonic Break - use once during burst for the snapshot and that's it. Cd actually becomes 60 seconds when you take Huton into account, so it lines up with TA. It is indeed pretty weird this way and seems about everyone would like it to be returned to being a normal combo again.
It's likely the devs figured that with mudras being gcd having three combos would become too much, removing too many Aeolians from the rotation, but tbh we've already had quite too many before changes so reducing them in favor of other gcds would've been good. Hopefully they'll listen to feedback and revert this one change, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

Took them almost over 3 expansions to finally make drastic change to ninja. Probably wont see much fixing anytime soon. I do hope outside of trick attack, ninja can have slightly more active rotation. How about making ninjutsu part of combo with combo potency and finisher? And drop the potency on ninjutsu but lower the cd on mudras recharge time or kass recast time. I'm sure people would like to cast even more ninjutsus.

All i wished the rework would have been was that jutsu was still ogcd as it was, but wasn't broken by weaponskills, so you could weave jutsu with combo and still retain the same APM with just some less executional pressure.
TCJ is very awesome though. Think the normal jutsus could have also used a bit of the TCJ function, by making the 3rd sign button itself execute the spell.

It's very dividing either ways, i noticed ppl picking up nin who didn't previously care for it much, but my fc also had a long time nin main with frequent top 10 nin logs quit the game due to it.

Minor gripe, but i only used to have the jutsu button on the bar to follow the CD of the jutsus. Now it doesn't show the cooldown, just the sign buttons do.

Originally Posted by finalheaven

Took them almost over 3 expansions to finally make drastic change to ninja. Probably wont see much fixing anytime soon. I do hope outside of trick attack, ninja can have slightly more active rotation. How about making ninjutsu part of combo with combo potency and finisher? And drop the potency on ninjutsu but lower the cd on mudras recharge time or kass recast time. I'm sure people would like to cast even more ninjutsus.

I think ninjutsus are pretty much fine the way they are now and don't need further complicating. While I dreaded the switch to gcd at first, it has proven to add some neat gcd manipulation and ways to optimize uptime on disengagements due to ninjutsus all being ranged. We already use them a lot, so pushing even more weaponskills out would be bad - just add back the 3rd combo so it's not Aeolian Edge all day. Cutting the gcd on ninjutsu itself to same length as mudras could be nice to make it feel faster, although it would remove to ability to weave afterwards.

I agree that losing most of our out-of-TA activity hurts. With the ninjutsu change the job feels more gcd focused than ogcd and that's really odd as well. It'd be nice if we got Jugulate back with some short cd like 25 seconds, to add more weaving that doesn't sync with the burst window. Wouldn't mind losing Assasinate for that, as right now it feels pretty tacked on(although they could also just make it a more frequent ogcd with an rng proc rather than just a DWD follow-up).

Originally Posted by Pallero

All i wished the rework would have been was that jutsu was still ogcd as it was, but wasn't broken by weaponskills, so you could weave jutsu with combo and still retain the same APM with just some less executional pressure.
TCJ is very awesome though. Think the normal jutsus could have also used a bit of the TCJ function, by making the 3rd sign button itself execute the spell.

It's very dividing either ways, i noticed ppl picking up nin who didn't previously care for it much, but my fc also had a long time nin main with frequent top 10 nin logs quit the game due to it.

Minor gripe, but i only used to have the jutsu button on the bar to follow the CD of the jutsus. Now it doesn't show the cooldown, just the sign buttons do.

Fully agree. I couldn't stand to play Nin 5.1 at first so I leveled other classes.
Problem is, have tried MCH, DRG, DNC, SMN,RDM, GB but I don't like anything as much as old 5.08 Nin.

I came back to Nin but hate it so much because of gcd mudras. It's too slow and they killed the weaving that made the class so much fun.

If they don't fix Nin I'll quit sooner or later. My play time has been drastically reduced since I leveled other classes to 80 and got bored of them.

I know there's a lot of JP players unhappy with shadowfang and gcd mudra changes so I hope they listen to them and revert the changes.

We really didn't Nin to turn into DNC 2.0