5.1 NIN slowed down and uninteresting

[SJWhat]

Mug at least is a Ninki gain button still. Assassinate just needs to be well Assassinated. Also two things, one Isn't Shadowfang the Rouge Cap? and 2, if you meant capstone in the way of traits, well this expansion has kinda just made me believe they hate Traits.

I also don't know if it's "Dumbed down" but it feels too slow for me to play happily again.

We get Death Blossom at 38, and Shadow Fang at 30. Rogue has no 50 class action, and neither does Bard. The action shuffle they did left some classes/jobs barren at the lower levels.

Also we are still keeping Doton up right? I was under the impression that the only Ninjutsu we don't use is Hyoton.

[Satarn]

Also we are still keeping Doton up right? I was under the impression that the only Ninjutsu we don't use is Hyoton.

NIN never really "kept Doton up". You use it on trash packs/adds if they'll live long enough to take enough ticks and that usually means only one cast. You can also toss a Doton pre-pull, if your party is willing to wait, but outside of that it's a loss on a single target. Single target TCJ is Fuma, Raiton, Suiton and you Meisui the buff for an extra Bava - it's no longer worth to Fuma, Katon, Doton on bosses like in SB.

2+ targets, if you've already dropped Doton(or you won't get enough ticks) you replace Raiton with Katon and Hyosho with Goka.

[finalheaven]

A number of questions, how is shadowfang recast 70 secs and duration itself 30 secs? What's the rationale of having the timings as such? Kinda feel they shouldn't let it have such a big gap in downtime.

Also, back then then combos weren't that static , now u just hit 1 2 3 or 1 2 4 which is pretty straight forward. These all had nth to do with ping fixing.

On the brighter side, you can cast ninjutus more smooth and their potency is increased which is nice. Ninki skills on the other hand feels less satisfying but their are ogcd so i guess it's fine. Overall, ninja became more casual and i can see more ppl picking it up while enthusiasts who liked the high old APM shunning these changes.

[Satarn]

A number of questions, how is shadowfang recast 70 secs and duration itself 30 secs? What's the rationale of having the timings as such? Kinda feel they shouldn't let it have such a big gap in downtime.

Also, back then then combos weren't that static , now u just hit 1 2 3 or 1 2 4 which is pretty straight forward. These all had nth to do with ping fixing.

Shadowfang is basically meant to work the same as GNB's Sonic Break - use once during burst for the snapshot and that's it. Cd actually becomes 60 seconds when you take Huton into account, so it lines up with TA. It is indeed pretty weird this way and seems about everyone would like it to be returned to being a normal combo again.
It's likely the devs figured that with mudras being gcd having three combos would become too much, removing too many Aeolians from the rotation, but tbh we've already had quite too many before changes so reducing them in favor of other gcds would've been good. Hopefully they'll listen to feedback and revert this one change, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

[finalheaven]

Took them almost over 3 expansions to finally make drastic change to ninja. Probably wont see much fixing anytime soon. I do hope outside of trick attack, ninja can have slightly more active rotation. How about making ninjutsu part of combo with combo potency and finisher? And drop the potency on ninjutsu but lower the cd on mudras recharge time or kass recast time. I'm sure people would like to cast even more ninjutsus.

[Pallero]

All i wished the rework would have been was that jutsu was still ogcd as it was, but wasn't broken by weaponskills, so you could weave jutsu with combo and still retain the same APM with just some less executional pressure.
TCJ is very awesome though. Think the normal jutsus could have also used a bit of the TCJ function, by making the 3rd sign button itself execute the spell.

It's very dividing either ways, i noticed ppl picking up nin who didn't previously care for it much, but my fc also had a long time nin main with frequent top 10 nin logs quit the game due to it.

Minor gripe, but i only used to have the jutsu button on the bar to follow the CD of the jutsus. Now it doesn't show the cooldown, just the sign buttons do.

[Satarn]

Took them almost over 3 expansions to finally make drastic change to ninja. Probably wont see much fixing anytime soon. I do hope outside of trick attack, ninja can have slightly more active rotation. How about making ninjutsu part of combo with combo potency and finisher? And drop the potency on ninjutsu but lower the cd on mudras recharge time or kass recast time. I'm sure people would like to cast even more ninjutsus.

I think ninjutsus are pretty much fine the way they are now and don't need further complicating. While I dreaded the switch to gcd at first, it has proven to add some neat gcd manipulation and ways to optimize uptime on disengagements due to ninjutsus all being ranged. We already use them a lot, so pushing even more weaponskills out would be bad - just add back the 3rd combo so it's not Aeolian Edge all day. Cutting the gcd on ninjutsu itself to same length as mudras could be nice to make it feel faster, although it would remove to ability to weave afterwards.

I agree that losing most of our out-of-TA activity hurts. With the ninjutsu change the job feels more gcd focused than ogcd and that's really odd as well. It'd be nice if we got Jugulate back with some short cd like 25 seconds, to add more weaving that doesn't sync with the burst window. Wouldn't mind losing Assasinate for that, as right now it feels pretty tacked on(although they could also just make it a more frequent ogcd with an rng proc rather than just a DWD follow-up).

[MerlinCross]

We get Death Blossom at 38, and Shadow Fang at 30. Rogue has no 50 class action, and neither does Bard. The action shuffle they did left some classes/jobs barren at the lower levels.

Also we are still keeping Doton up right? I was under the impression that the only Ninjutsu we don't use is Hyoton.

Ah that's what you meant. I counted it as 'capstone' because Lv 30 is the level you tend to stop being a Class and start being a Job but looking over others like DRG, MNK and WAR, yeah other jobs get 2 ablilites at level 50.

But hey, low content 'doesn't matter' so it can be as boring as possible at that level. Anything to make people buy a jump potion right? God I hate syncing down on some classes.

As for Doton.., I'm not an expert but I still use it on trash especially these days where tanks are pulling from boss to boss. VS bosses I still use it but it has fallen down on how much of a priority it is.

[Yani-Madara]

All i wished the rework would have been was that jutsu was still ogcd as it was, but wasn't broken by weaponskills, so you could weave jutsu with combo and still retain the same APM with just some less executional pressure.
TCJ is very awesome though. Think the normal jutsus could have also used a bit of the TCJ function, by making the 3rd sign button itself execute the spell.

It's very dividing either ways, i noticed ppl picking up nin who didn't previously care for it much, but my fc also had a long time nin main with frequent top 10 nin logs quit the game due to it.

Minor gripe, but i only used to have the jutsu button on the bar to follow the CD of the jutsus. Now it doesn't show the cooldown, just the sign buttons do.

Fully agree. I couldn't stand to play Nin 5.1 at first so I leveled other classes.
Problem is, have tried MCH, DRG, DNC, SMN,RDM, GB but I don't like anything as much as old 5.08 Nin.

I came back to Nin but hate it so much because of gcd mudras. It's too slow and they killed the weaving that made the class so much fun.

If they don't fix Nin I'll quit sooner or later. My play time has been drastically reduced since I leveled other classes to 80 and got bored of them.

I know there's a lot of JP players unhappy with shadowfang and gcd mudra changes so I hope they listen to them and revert the changes.

We really didn't Nin to turn into DNC 2.0

[Solowing]

Pasting my reply from another thread

Ninja feel so slow, its actually frustratingly slow to play because the playstyle of weaving in your ninjutsu's has been removed for latency and accessibility due to the Ninjutsu oGCD to GCD change. The change to shadowfang simplified the combo to the point where it feels vestigial (a 30 second debuff that is on CD for 70 seconds, it turned the upkeep of the ability into a Fire and Forget move). Having to COMPLETELY stop to WAIT for a GCD to throw a quick ninjutsu (Nin shuriken doesn't see use anymore outside of ten chi jin, im not gonna really use it in the world since i dont have to be that close to Raiton as a opener before i draw aggro) Had reduced the class to a Trick Attack Bot where the fun only starts with Trick attack and remains only as long as its active, once its done, back to 1-2-3 with a 4 thrown in there every 70 seconds.

Tossing a ninjutsu in now feel extremely clunky since it no longer flows in with the abilities as i have to proactively switch between doing my regular abilities and then doing ninjutsu rather then incorporating ninjutsu into the normal rotation. Since my regular abilities have no interaction with my ninjutsu, Ninjutsu moreso becomes a afterthought until T/A comes up. Some of the changes were great! The 2 charges for ninjutsu i loved, the Ten-Chi-Jin changes were a big plus. However in terms of the classes enjoyment, it took 2 steps forward and 3 back. The class is far less enjoyable then what it was for 3 expansion despite it hitting harder, ninja is the only class ive enjoyed as much as i do in all my MMO years, and since its the only class i play, another hit to the class like this for me is a subscription ender...