Crossover events and breaking immersion

[Valic]

We're in a world literally called final FANTASY, meaning dreams and ideas beyond reality and comprehension are plausible in a universe where magic, monsters, and story are the most centralized theme. Why do people get so upset when the devs do such a great job at implementing crossovers into this game while still maintaining a semblance of immersion and lore acceptability? Take the MHW event crossover, that was fun as heck both MHW side(and still is) and it's fun over here... Lore-wise they both fit the criteria enough to be reasonable and not "immersion destroying". Same with the FF15 crossover, the writing may be a lil half assed sometimes but it still fits/works? We see beings from alternate dimensions almost as if it's a daily routine at this point, why is one other thing happening somehow now considered "oh no, this one is just unplayable" lol.

I'm with you there. It's always weird to see the car from Final Fantasy 15 as a mount. Like, why is that the only instance of a car in the game? The Monster Hunter themed dungeon was ok to me. If I didn't know better, I probably would've never guessed.

Like to add to this one for a second.... If we look back to every other FF, there are "cars" in those games. There's also magitek gorillas, literally fking robots, and so on. IIRC, even the char dialogue is something along the lines of "what's a car?". Something I tend to realize in this game and others that act akin to it... There is such an idea as seeing something unusual in the universe just as we would IRL. Being a someone in FFXIV and seeing a "Car" without ever seeing one before, knowing what one is, or etc... Shouldn't it border more on the line of "must be some new fancy magitek" or "I've never seen such a thing before" or "this place is always coming out with something new"? Idk, I don't mind the cars and such when magitek and robots are already almost everywhere or explained as an allag invention. If anything, I only realize in universe we're starting to develop reasonable technological advances and prioritize development when we see something beneficial to the future of Eorzea etc etc (I sound like I'm RP'ing here at this point). Point being... It doesn't bother me unless it's truly bizarre or explainable, or illogical. A carriage with wheels that looks long, sleek, and runs off aether/magic/electricity/steam/whateverthehellyouwannacallit.... Isn't all that immersion breaking in a universe where we have tons of that as is molded into different concepts. Now... Take Tera for example and it adding a police car in a world where no one should know wtf a police car is or red/blue lights etc.... Yeah no, that was added no explanation for lore and makes no sense.

TL;DR: If your immersion breaks upon seeing a machine that has wheels and chairs, Magitek must be friggin APPALLING then every time you've come across it in the MSQ. Again, we live in a grand universe of magic and fantasy, embrace the ideas and the fact they even have lore to explain their existence in the world whereas most mmo's will shove them in without any care/explanation because "LULZ IT LOOKS FUNNY".

[monk-dps]

We're in a world literally called final FANTASY, meaning dreams and ideas beyond reality and comprehension are plausible in a universe where magic, monsters, and story are the most centralized theme. Why do people get so upset when the devs do such a great job at implementing crossovers into this game while still maintaining a semblance of immersion and lore acceptability? Take the MHW event crossover, that was fun as heck both MHW side(and still is) and it's fun over here... Lore-wise they both fit the criteria enough to be reasonable and not "immersion destroying". Same with the FF15 crossover, the writing may be a lil half assed sometimes but it still fits/works? We see beings from alternate dimensions almost as if it's a daily routine at this point, why is one other thing happening somehow now considered "oh no, this one is just unplayable" lol.

I dunno man. Like we just fought an alien killer robot that had the power to bring other things from other unisveres and whatnot. Literally a sonic boss in some aspects. A car or a bike is such small things compared to a boss who has the power to bring whatever he wants to life.. and came from outter space like he was a reject from mega man 8. >.>

[Valic]

I dunno man. Like we just fought an alien killer robot that had the power to bring other things from other unisveres and whatnot. Literally a sonic boss in some aspects. A car or a bike is such small things compared to a boss who has the power to bring whatever he wants to life.. and came from outter space like he was a reject from mega man 8. >.>

Which boss we talking about here exactly? Neir?

[TheMightyMollusk]

Which boss we talking about here exactly? Neir?

That'd be Omega.

[Valic]

That'd be Omega.

Oh, you mean the allagan created sentinel designed to oppress entities such as primals or giant dragons that grew out of the allagan's reach of control to bind/destroy? It's almost as if an ancient society based on technological advances and study of aether developed a mechanism to traverse the boundaries of time and space in an attempt to better understand their own kind, other worlds, and better themselves to preserve their race/knowledge. Can't imagine a dragon that can travel beyond stars and dimensions(Midgardsomr) that's so powerful it threatened existence to said race and forced their hand to use Omega to track it down and neutralize it.

I'm paraphrasing immensely here because I actually didn't enjoy Omega as a raid until Alphascape 2.0 where it actually used our game's lore rather than just feeding fan service bosses and using the writing as a scapegoat(again, another case where the writing may be crap, but it still works?). Regardless, you get the point here... It's not that SIRfarfetch'd enough that a race eons ago created something to develop their knowledge beyond their star/universe to both protect them and advance their technology. If there's anything I did admire out of Omega, it was not only the tale about Omega tracking down Middy, but the fact it kinda ties the other FF's together with his existence into this game.... Where, again, multiple universes exist with magic, mechas, and so on.

I don't believe he actually had power to bring anything to life. We fought inside an area of his creation using data it's collected over generation and dimensions. It uses that data to simulate pain and the ideas of life that was programmed for it to understand. It also used that data to invent concepts/ideas of the bosses we fought by using stories and etc to develop how they may or may not act and what powers/potential they would be capable of. Considering we have white mages in the past bringing about golems and reanimating structures, as well as earth monsters and mammets.... I can only imagine it's not that far off a machine that has learned to adapt and evolve has learned a basic fundamental understanding of how aether in our world works, comprises our bodies/forms, and how to manipulate it enough to create what he is capable of creating(which is basically anything minus a soul, which is why Alpha is such an outstanding character in that plot line as it somehow developed a soul whereas Omega and all its creations had none).

TL;DR: Flying magitek robot can create phony objects that can walk, talk, act, and pretend to be a thing, but like itself, they will never truly be give "life". And as far as coming from outer space, no it's come from farther places than just there my friend and reasonably so.

EDIT: Strike the majority of that tbh, I'm a moron and forgot the whole story apparently and its 3 am for me lol. Point still stands though.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Oh, you mean the allagan created sentinel designed to oppress entities such as primals or giant dragons that grew out of the allagan's reach of control to bind/destroy? It's almost as if an ancient society based on technological advances and study of aether developed a mechanism to traverse the boundaries of time and space in an attempt to better understand their own kind, other worlds, and better themselves to preserve their race/knowledge. Can't imagine a dragon that can travel beyond stars and dimensions(Midgardsomr) that's so powerful it threatened existence to said race and forced their hand to use Omega to track it down and neutralize it.

I'm paraphrasing immensely here because I actually didn't enjoy Omega as a rid until 2.0+ where it actually used our game's lore rather than just feeding fan service bosses and using the writing as a scapegoat(again, another case where the writing may be crap, but it still works?). Regardless, you get the point here... It's not that SIRfarfetch'd enough that a race eons ago created something to develop their knowledge beyond their star/universe to both protect them and advance their technology. If there's anything I did admire out of Omega, it was not only the tale about Omega tracking down Middy, but the fact it kinda ties the other FF's together with his existence into this game.... Where, again, multiple universes exist with magic, mechas, and so on.

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

[Valic]

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

That's what I wanted to see. Disregarding me being an idiot and forgetting the entirety of the Omega raid story... My point stands, you understand what it is and it doesn't really break immersion from the game considering how the universe works so far. All people have to do is read to understand and bam, immersion saved. Maybe I'm mixing up something to do with Ultima but I swear I thought there was something to do with Omega being something to do with Allag, maybe because I'm relating Nero in all this and the fact we found the dang control pad in Mor Dhona, I forget tbh.... Again though, considering how you laid it out, it doesn't sound very "out of this world" for this game.

You actually help my point tho. This is in XIV's lore, He is literally the plot to Sonic Battle. Where an ancient race created a being of insane power for whatever purposes that came to life to search for his own meaning to life. Literally sonic battle or any sicfi plot since the dawn of time. When you look at it that way I don't see how people complain about a car not fitting when omega is literally one of the basics of all sicfi plots accross many stories and games.. one being mega man or Sonic the hedgehog. I bring those up cause putting those two games next to XIV looks insane. But what do you know.. XIV is using the same plots as those two games did and many more before it. I'm just saying it's not that far off when you step back and see everything for what it is. It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense. I shorten the qoute cause this forum sucks.

Disregard most of my post tbh, I'm sleepy and apparently forgot the entire plot of the damn thing... In any case, I think we are in agreement then and prolly didn't pick up on the possible sarcasm. I know people who genuinely act like Omega is this "lolwow" thing like it doesn't belong at all (though I wish it was written better). I personally don't relate the things you mention to FFXIV, but you're on point with "how can we say its immersion breaking when its like this?" type deal. Also, you can post and edit a post right after to go beyond the character post limit on these forums.... I agree they suck >_>;

[Shurrikhan]

Omega is not an Allagan creation, they (as far as we know) never went past orbit, and they never figured out time travel (that's Alexander's thing, and he came about long after Allag fell). The Allagans lost track of "bettering themselves" long before their fall when they fell into rampant hedonism and abused their technology in increasingly horrific ways. Midgardsormr had no known interactions with the Allagans at all, and they did not send Omega to track him anywhere; nor would they have to send Omega beyond the stars, since both Middy and Omega were already on Hydaelyn before the Allagan Empire ever arose. Midgardsormr never "threatened existence", he fell here as a refugee after Omega wiped out his planet.

Please rewatch the cut scenes for the Omega raid before you try to use them as a talking point.

Given how closely that ties to the star creature of XIV's launch cinematic and who takes reference from the very area ARR all begins (Carteneu Flats or however it's spelled)... that hardly makes Omega Weapon as distant from XIV's world and story as, say, the NieR crossover.

And that's not even because it's NieR or because it's got the bosses and aesthetics and characters it does, it's just because it has nearly zero explanation or fit for having ended up in the XIV world. Had we just discovered the city it out in the Light Waste in a temporal pocket caused by some antipolar reaction whatchamahavit to Cid and the CE's breaking time where it briefly shows the distant future of the First Shard after the fall of humanity, or whatever else it might take to actually make its place in XIV's story compelling, there'd be no issue.

But there wasn't. We just meet some brats, go down a mine, blow up some doors, and discover a city down there because... why? and how?... Who knows.

[monk-dps]

Oh, you mean the allagan created sentinel designed to oppress entities such as primals or giant dragons that grew out of the allagan's reach of control to bind/destroy? It's almost as if an ancient society based on technological advances and study of aether developed a mechanism to traverse the boundaries of time and space in an attempt to better understand their own kind, other worlds, and better themselves to preserve their race/knowledge. Can't imagine a dragon that can travel beyond stars and dimensions(Midgardsomr) that's so powerful it threatened existence to said race and forced their hand to use Omega to track it down and neutralize it.

You actually help my point tho. This is in XIV's lore, He is literally the plot to Sonic Battle. Where an ancient race created a being of insane power for whatever purposes that came to life to search for his own meaning to life. Literally sonic battle or any sicfi plot since the dawn of time. When you look at it that way I don't see how people complain about a car not fitting when omega is literally one of the basics of all sicfi plots accross many stories and games.. one being mega man or Sonic the hedgehog. I bring those up cause putting those two games next to XIV looks insane. But what do you know.. XIV is using the same plots as those two games did and many more before it. I'm just saying it's not that far off when you step back and see everything for what it is. It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense. I shorten the qoute cause this forum sucks.

[File2ish]

... It just feels like people look at XIV and think - IT'S OLD ENGLISH TIMES- when it's really not... it's not even set on earth for that to make sense...

Exactly.

The post I replied to a couple pages back was saying essentially (paraphrasing) that the crossover raids break "immersion" (I honestly hate this term). They integrate them into the lore. Ivalice content isn't just FF12 and FFT, they literally made a country on Hydaelyn for it all. So rather than just "oh look Balthier and Fran made an oopsie and ended up in Eorzea", they took a lot of time to make Dalmasca/Ivalice part of the world which we may one day visit. It would have been a shame and major uproar if they did a main 24 man raid like how Lightning, Shantotto, and Noctis came for the limited time events.

Or another posted about the Regalia mount breaking immersion. I fail to understand how the car from FFXV being in this game is somehow immersion breaking when we have Magitek being the main force power the antagonistic (to us) nation of Garlemald (like Magitek Armors, the claws, the collosi, airships like the Agrius from 1.0...). We can have a giant god dragon slaying airship that took down Midgardsomr with it, but the Regalia mount is too much? Azys Lla is literally an Allagan floating prison for the Warring Triad and Ratatoskr that we break into with the help of a flying ice lady fighting an enemy magitek airship. But yeah, the Regalia is too much. Same with fat chocobos, they couldn't fly with those tiny wings, physics wouldn't allow it.

If you want to tell me that naked catfish head guy warrior over there constantly jumping and /dote-ing on people is immersion breaking next to your plate mail clad paladin when facing Nidhogg, yeah that would be. If all the 2B cosplayers are annoying you, I can get behind you on that. But some of the complaints in this thread are the least bit "immersion breaking" looking back at some of the things in the lore and story.