Monk

[silverdragontyr]

If you really think that Pgl is so much weaker then other DD then do this simple test any idiot could understand.

Go to an area with level 50+ enemies. Doesn't matter where. Bring with you a Mrd and and Lnc.

Pick an enemy. Have the Mrd and yourself hit it. You with no stance up, the Mrd with berserk up. Count the Mrd damage per hit. Count your damage per hit. Add your two fists together. Compare.

Pick an enemy. Have the Lnc and yourself hit it. You with no stance up, the Lnc with Power Surge III up. Count the Mrd damage per hit. Count your damage per hit. Add your two fists together. Compare.

Then once you've done this and say "Ha! See my damage is like 20-50 points lower!" , repeat this test, this time comparing your attack speed to theirs. Once you two hit at the exact same time, or very close after the first attack, you will have gained a full attack round over them. Count how much extra damage this adds up to.

THEN, after you've done this, use a stance, and repeat this test. Stance are dependent on the type of enemy and should not be used to check base damage. However on every enemy I have encountered at least one of the two stances increases your damage. It doesn't take parsers or calculating every minute detail of how the wind affected the impact of your punch or how gravity made the Mrd Axe hit harder. It takes using your eyes and not being an idiot. Pgl is not inherently weaker because they use MP. If you want to believe that, can't change your mind, but I know you're wrong.

If you still think Pgl is weak after this, well that's a damn shame. But SE isn't going to change the job because you're a whiny fool who can't be bothered to do anything more then auto-attack and use a WS every now and then.

[Vackashken]

If you really think that Pgl is so much weaker then other DD then do this simple test any idiot could understand.

Go to an area with level 50+ enemies. Doesn't matter where. Bring with you a Mrd and and Lnc.

Pick an enemy. Have the Mrd and yourself hit it. You with no stance up, the Mrd with berserk up. Count the Mrd damage per hit. Count your damage per hit. Add your two fists together. Compare.

Pick an enemy. Have the Lnc and yourself hit it. You with no stance up, the Lnc with Power Surge III up. Count the Mrd damage per hit. Count your damage per hit. Add your two fists together. Compare.

Then once you've done this and say "Ha! See my damage is like 20-50 points lower!" , repeat this test, this time comparing your attack speed to theirs. Once you two hit at the exact same time, or very close after the first attack, you will have gained a full attack round over them. Count how much extra damage this adds up to.

THEN, after you've done this, use a stance, and repeat this test. Stance are dependent on the type of enemy and should not be used to check base damage. However on every enemy I have encountered at least one of the two stances increases your damage. It doesn't take parsers or calculating every minute detail of how the wind affected the impact of your punch or how gravity made the Mrd Axe hit harder. It takes using your eyes and not being an idiot. Pgl is not inherently weaker because they use MP. If you want to believe that, can't change your mind, but I know you're wrong.

If you still think Pgl is weak after this, well that's a damn shame. But SE isn't going to change the job because you're a whiny fool who can't be bothered to do anything more then auto-attack and use a WS every now and then.

Outstanding, clown!

The flaw in that argument is nothing suggests that they will need the extra management to put out comparable damage. Based on the numbers PGL puts out now, it's more like the extra management is an option that allows PGL to surpass every DD by a noticeable margin.

Again thats a lot of supposition. Granted I am arguing with conjecture as well but mine is more based in reality. Whos to say all other DD won't be enhanced as well substantially? In particular with how DRG was described. Again, leaving Mnk the absolute need to have a brd with it handicapping it in comparison to any other DD. This, just about any way you wanna cut, makes the mnk a tide and flow DD which is not wanted in any kind of long term fight. Fighting 50 mobs is basically meaningless to me in this regard.

I am talking about NMs and any kind of high end level mob.

As for always having a brd again maybe maybe not. Again, doesn't change the fact you have to have a symbiosis relationship with another class as an absolute.

[NoctisUmbra]

Again thats a lot of supposition. Granted I am arguing with conjecture as well but mine is more based in reality. Whos to say all other DD won't be enhanced as well substantially? In particular with how DRG was described. Again, leaving Mnk the absolute need to have a brd with it handicapping it in comparison to any other DD. This, just about any way you wanna cut, makes the mnk a tide and flow DD which is not wanted in any kind of long term fight. Fighting 50 mobs is basically meaningless to me in this regard.

I am talking about NMs and any kind of high end level mob.

As for always having a brd again maybe maybe not. Again, doesn't change the fact you have to have a symbiosis relationship with another class as an absolute.

Yes, the conjecture in both of our arguments are granted - as we are discussing something we don't have access to. The difference is I am using the classes that are the bases of these jobs and the way they stand right now to project how the jobs will function.

DRG and MNK are clearly, by description and by design in the way of the skills they are being given, are being built to deal damage. WAR also appears to show design facets of a DD, however also that of an offensive tank. BRD supplements ARC with party support abilities rather than self-buffs in the way DD jobs appear to.

So let's take LNC and PGL now. Between the two, PGL is capable of dishing out noticeably higher damage than LNC when it utilizes a stance. Without a stance the damage is much more comparable, yet the edge would still go to PGL in most circumstances. Their attack speed as well as the pure, punishing power of Howling Fist especially when coupled with PGL's enhanced Blindside give them an edge.

Considering SE got it right with the class balance by giving PGL a noticeable edge in DPS as a reward for MP management, suspicion of them getting it wrong with jobs isn't warranted.

As for the bit about NMs and bosses, try PGL in Moogle fight and see how hard you hit Whiskerwall and Ruffletuft for with your AA and compare it to other DDs.

FoF PGL's 80-100 per hit (total ~160-200) compared to the 40-50 of a ARC Light Shot should give you an idea.