Changes that war need?

[BarretOblivion]

So I brought in WAR into TEA and I gotta say, its really clunky. Mainly because of how WAR is designed around almost all of its damage is dependant on IR. TEA the hand and LL slowly extend thier gap of HP as the fight drags on and the problem is your IR is on cooldown until 2nd protean wave. During all that time we had to start making DPS put extra dots on the hand just to help keep their hp pools in check because without a good solid consistant damage the one that the WAR has starts falling behind until IR.

That's the problem to me with WAR, too reliant on IR.

[Ultimatecalibur]

So I brought in WAR into TEA and I gotta say, its really clunky. Mainly because of how WAR is designed around almost all of its damage is dependant on IR. TEA the hand and LL slowly extend thier gap of HP as the fight drags on and the problem is your IR is on cooldown until 2nd protean wave. During all that time we had to start making DPS put extra dots on the hand just to help keep their hp pools in check because without a good solid consistant damage the one that the WAR has starts falling behind until IR.

That's the problem to me with WAR, too reliant on IR.

So would increasing the potency of the Storm's Eye and Storm's Path combos while decreasing Fell Cleave's potency (and leaving Inner Chaos alone) do that?

[BarretOblivion]

So would increasing the potency of the Storm's Eye and Storm's Path combos while decreasing Fell Cleave's potency (and leaving Inner Chaos alone) do that?

No, you still fell cleave a bit even outside of IR so that wouldn't help at all. All the other tanks besides WAR have optimal options to hit 2 targets with some kind of AoE and gain damage. WAR can't do that, none of its skills is a gain on damage on two targets over single target until 3 targets are in place.
WAR has a design issue that steems from the IR change, instead they should revert the change from SB by removing the guarenteed DH/CRT aspect of IR but bring back beserk for a 20% DPS gain. Maybe keep the chaos skills as DH/CRIT but they need something better to help balance their down time without IR. As some WARs point out, there is a fairly massive damage difference between killing a boss before an IR and afterwards.

Because WAR is so darn spikey it puts more pressure on DPS to go out of their way to help more in Ultimate due to the requirement of not having IR when the hand/LL split. You only get to IR again during Protean Wave 2, which is almost at the end of the entire LL phase.

This is the one of the design issues with making a burst tank instead of a consistant damage tank. Sure bursts are important, but when you are all in on your burst there are legitamate issues with that. DRK is also a burst tank, but its burst isn't as high as WAR so it has room to have a better outside of burst damage so you aren't completely 100% reliant on that burst. PLD/GNB have burst phases but they aren't massive but are enough to keep their numbers basically static through out the fight. Again, this issue glares its ugly head in TEA, but one could argue it also comes up when mechanics line up with you are supposed to be bursting that force you to move. Delaying a burst and missing party buffs can lead to missing an entire burst phase in the long run which just extends the DPS difference between tanks.

A rework to reduce burst but improve on its outside burst is needed for WAR, at least in my opinion.

[NyneSwordz]

No, you still fell cleave a bit even outside of IR so that wouldn't help at all. All the other tanks besides WAR have optimal options to hit 2 targets with some kind of AoE and gain damage. WAR can't do that, none of its skills is a gain on damage on two targets over single target until 3 targets are in place.
WAR has a design issue that steems from the IR change, instead they should revert the change from SB by removing the guarenteed DH/CRT aspect of IR but bring back beserk for a 20% DPS gain. Maybe keep the chaos skills as DH/CRIT but they need something better to help balance their down time without IR. As some WARs point out, there is a fairly massive damage difference between killing a boss before an IR and afterwards.

Because WAR is so darn spikey it puts more pressure on DPS to go out of their way to help more in Ultimate due to the requirement of not having IR when the hand/LL split. You only get to IR again during Protean Wave 2, which is almost at the end of the entire LL phase.

This is the one of the design issues with making a burst tank instead of a consistant damage tank. Sure bursts are important, but when you are all in on your burst there are legitamate issues with that. DRK is also a burst tank, but its burst isn't as high as WAR so it has room to have a better outside of burst damage so you aren't completely 100% reliant on that burst. PLD/GNB have burst phases but they aren't massive but are enough to keep their numbers basically static through out the fight. Again, this issue glares its ugly head in TEA, but one could argue it also comes up when mechanics line up with you are supposed to be bursting that force you to move. Delaying a burst and missing party buffs can lead to missing an entire burst phase in the long run which just extends the DPS difference between tanks.

A rework to reduce burst but improve on its outside burst is needed for WAR, at least in my opinion.

I agree. Maybe they can just bake in Berserks damage buff into IR and remove the guaranteed DH/DC. Also, I'm not a fan of how Infuriate/IC/Chaotic Cyclone works right now either. I don't like the fact that wars can't use their most powerful action within IR. Feels weird. And instead of making a new nuke, I wish they made IC do something different than just being a big potency action since that's supposed to be FC. Same goes for Chaotic Cyclone.

Not a fan of ShB War. I wish they could just undo ShB and bring back Stormblood War...

[Argyle_Darkheart]

WAR can't do that, none of its skills is a gain on damage on two targets over single target until 3 targets are in place.

Overpower > Mythril Tempest is a DPS gain over single target combos on two or more targets.

[BarretOblivion]

Overpower > Mythril Tempest is a DPS gain over single target combos on two or more targets.

That still doesn't help WAR in TEA. You aren't going to do that at all because you have a responsibility to keep 1 of the bosses at HP close to the other and they do need to split alot plus you are still falling behind the other Tank until IR comes up again. The other tanks don't need to use a combo for a DPS gain on two targets.
DRK can flood, PLD circle of scorn, GBN has bow shock and fated circle. You are a fool if you think you can overpower/mithril tempest in TEA, you are just going to start wiping your group doing that.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

You are a fool if you think you can overpower/mithril tempest in TEA, you are just going to start wiping your group doing that.

I Overpower > Mythril Tempest plenty in TEA, and it hasn't ever presented any kind of issue.

[BarretOblivion]

I Overpower > Mythril Tempest plenty in TEA, and it hasn't ever presented any kind of issue.

You are the only person on the planet that does that and your DPS are working overtime to compensate for your ignorance. I have seen a few people doing that but its because its a giant gamble and moving more work for your DPS instead. While your doing that your other tank is single targetting outside of a few OGCDs that hit multiple targets, your DPS are doing the same thing. Which means your own add/boss is falling behind the other boss without extra help from your DPS. Your likely looking at enrage problems because you only need to get the hand to 6% before dropping it and burning LL.

It works... but man its a gamble your DPS might not appreciate.

[Ultimatecalibur]

No, you still fell cleave a bit even outside of IR so that wouldn't help at all.

I'm not suggesting dropping Fell Cleave to something like 500, I'm suggesting dropping Fell Cleave to something like 570 and then increasing the potency of each action in the Storm's Eye/Path combos by 20. Each Fell Cleave in and out of IR would be weaker but in theory that damage loss would be made up by the improved combo damage.

WAR has a design issue that steems from the IR change, instead they should revert the change from SB by removing the guarenteed DH/CRT aspect of IR but bring back beserk for a 20% DPS gain. Maybe keep the chaos skills as DH/CRIT but they need something better to help balance their down time without IR. As some WARs point out, there is a fairly massive damage difference between killing a boss before an IR and afterwards.

You are confusing me. Removing the DH/CRIT effect of IR would just make Warrior swingy like it was before IR was changed in 4.1 and it would not fix the High IR spike vs low sustained damage problem you are complaining about. During 4.0, Warrior ended up having wildly swingy dps based on the number of Crits, Direct Hits and Direct Crits during in Berserk/IR phase of its rotation. The DH/Crit effect added to IR actually fixed this problem and stabilized warrior dps. Removing this would just make Warrior worse in the long run.

Because WAR is so darn spikey it puts more pressure on DPS to go out of their way to help more in Ultimate due to the requirement of not having IR when the hand/LL split. You only get to IR again during Protean Wave 2, which is almost at the end of the entire LL phase.

Which means that you would want to reduce spikiness by either increasing out of IR dps at the cost of reducing IR dps to maintain average dps or reduce the periods between burst phase spikes and the duration of those spikes.

This is the one of the design issues with making a burst tank instead of a consistant damage tank. Sure bursts are important, but when you are all in on your burst there are legitamate issues with that. DRK is also a burst tank, but its burst isn't as high as WAR so it has room to have a better outside of burst damage so you aren't completely 100% reliant on that burst. PLD/GNB have burst phases but they aren't massive but are enough to keep their numbers basically static through out the fight. Again, this issue glares its ugly head in TEA, but one could argue it also comes up when mechanics line up with you are supposed to be bursting that force you to move. Delaying a burst and missing party buffs can lead to missing an entire burst phase in the long run which just extends the DPS difference between tanks.

This sounds like the problem is more with the length of the period between the Warrior's bursts. The Paladin and Gunbreaker both have rotations with 2 burst per minute, one a "low" burst (FoF combos for the PLD and unbuffed Gnashing combo for GNB) and a "high" burst (Requiescat+Holy for PLD and No Mercy Gnashing combo for GNB). This makes for less intensive spikes roughly every 30s in comparison to the Warrior's crazy 10s burst every 90s. The DRK also has a burst every 90s but they are far less extreme than the Warrior's.

A rework to reduce burst but improve on its outside burst is needed for WAR, at least in my opinion.

And that is what I was suggesting with the increase potency of the Storm's Path and Storm's Eye combos while reducing the potency of Fell Cleave.

[Shurrikhan]

To add to that you build beast gauge faster, since it's a 2 hit combo instead of 3.

If down to 2 targets, you'd be using SE regardless, so the only comparison would be between SP and MT combos. As SP generates 30 per 3 GCDs and MT generates 20 per 2 GCDs, their gpgcd is identical until 30 seconds into combat (at which point MT doesn't need to take the efficiency loss of reapplying SE).

It's mostly just that MT combo does 36.33 ppgcd more than SP combo at 2 targets.

A rework to reduce burst but improve on its outside burst is needed for WAR, at least in my opinion.

This.